Other/Mixed Avoiding tendonitis?

[DocMike]

Love bands for tricep extensions & face pulls/BPA, but need to figure out how to set up what I have for ham & quad.... Thx!

Attach the band to a pole, squat rack, or support beam and loop the other end around your heels while sitting...pull towards your butt...boom hamstring

Attach rhe band and loop around tour ankle at the shin and straighten out the knee away from butt...boom quad

 

[Abishai]

Make sure you're working the antagonistic movement as well, e.g. finger flexors not just grip.
If the body part is small, put it in a bucket of cold water. That helped my thumb tendinitis.

I had really bad tendonitis from progressing too quickly in one arm pullups.
I started doing Captain of crush grippers and One arm pushups and it healed up.
I think it came from progressing to fast so parts of the body did not have time to adapt.
In my case,my grip wasnt strong enough yet to progress to one arm pullups despite my lats and bicep being ready.
Also make sure to make sure that that you are progressing in equal measure to the agnostic movement like @Pete L says.( for an example if you get tendonitis from pulling movments make sure your pushing strength is not lagging behind your pulling stregnth)
Im no scientist but I have noticed that most of my joint pain comes when there is a muscular inbalance. My theory is that the tendon is getting a non balanced amount of tension from one side. Again I'm not a sports dr so I'm not sure if this scientific but this is what worked for me and two of my clients)
So my takeaway is:
make sure to always warm up properly
Make sure there are no weak links around the affected area
Massage with a Massage gun,lacrosse ball or even your hands

Hope you get some relief

 

[watchnerd]

As soon as you feel tendon discomfort stop what you are doing and go home.

Yeah, I no longer try to 'fight through the pain' when it comes to joints. I kept trying to do that through my 40s, but >50, nope.

I may not go home, but I'll certainly stop that exercise and move on to something else.

 

[watchnerd]

One idea I found on internet was that for novices its easy to grow stronger muscles but tendons and ligaments lag behind and can get hurt(tendonitis) by the newly strengthened muscle, so don't try to improve strength too much too quickly - can someone who knows more than me verify or debunk this idea please ?

Very true and something I factor into my weightlifting meet prep.

I start my preparatory phase for a meet 6 months before the event mostly for these reason -- my muscle memory and strength comes back quickly after the off season, but I need to allow a much longer time for my connective tissue to become both stronger and pliable enough to handle ballistics.

 

[Wyanokie]

I learned long ago: your tendons do not gain strength as fast as your muscles do. I am also prone to tendonitis/tendinosis, and a few things I now prioritize:

1) Rest adequately, maybe more than your program recommends. I do two days off between workouts, instead of one.
2) Don't rush towards weight goals. There's a lot of wisdom in Pavel's advice to "repeat until easy".
3) Self-regulate. If you are feeling inflammation or 'off' skip the workout or go light, don't force yourself through what your notebook says to do.
4) Mix up your movements. You may have 3-4 fundamental movements in your program, but mix in other LIGHT loaded movements one or two days a week. For example I'm on a variation of a Starting Strength barbell program, but still mix in OS resets, bodyweight TGUs, mobility work, carries, light sled work (sled pulls are a great way to load the backwards walking that Knees Over Toes Guy recommends).
5) Don't neglect direct, light work on smaller joints!! No one seems to program bicep or wrist curls anymore. I wonder if light dumbell and wrist curls (and tricep pushdowns) done as finishers 2x/week would prevent the golfer's and tennis elbow that so many people report. Curls seem to make my elbows happy, YMMV.

Bottom line: go slow and let your tendons get strong, and challenge them in different ways by moving in different directions. Good luck!

 

[North]

Maybe when you are recovered do 4 weeks of S&S then 4 weeks of something else that is complimentary.

My recommendations would be along the lines of the Giant (1.0, then S&S, 1.1, then S&S, 1.2, then S&S, 2.0, S&S, etc) for your age group.

You could also consider alternating S&S with the following free programs on this site (which I’m sure you are familiar with as I’ve seen your posts before). I wouldn’t, personally, worry if you haven’t achieved timeless simple if your technique is on point.

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This method, while it does not maximize the development of any of the above qualities—only a highly specialized method, not a general physical preparation one, could do that—it develops them to levels high enough to successfully compete in amateur sports, excel at physically demanding...

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It could be that you just need some variety to avoid overdoing it and changing things up before the “itis” will help you to avoid the injury. Doing similar but different will help maintain your gains…

I would also encourage you to limit S&S to 3 days/week. If you prefer to workout most days of the week (this is my preference as a day off seems to break my habit) then the time you would spend on S&S could be for breath practice, physical therapy drills, mobility, etc. or just a brisk walk.

 

[Essexman]

Interesting topic as I’m currently suffering with my right hand. Pain is below were the thumb joins the hand (heal of the thumb?). Started weeks ago after possibly too many steel mace 360s and 10 to 2s. Very slow recovery. The biggest issue it that it effects my grip, so I’m having to avoid using kettlebells.

 

[Pete L]

Interesting topic as I’m currently suffering with my right hand. Pain is below were the thumb joins the hand (heal of the thumb?). Started weeks ago after possibly too many steel mace 360s and 10 to 2s. Very slow recovery. The biggest issue it that it effects my grip, so I’m having to avoid using kettlebells.

I had something similar a few years ago. Rest, ice and buckets of cold water helped.
I also found a wrist stretch while kneeling and with my wrsts fully supinated around my fingers pointing to my knees really stretched to thumb area nicely. This was great in a hot bath too.

 

[silveraw]

+1 for bone broth recommendation, but I don't think it's sufficient. IMHO gelatin contains more peptides you need + vitamin C is crucial for collagen synthesis

Just want to add that the + vitamin C is SUPER important if you are getting minimal vitamin c from your diet. (eg carnivore or keto)

 

[Melika]

Based on the success I posted earlier from just one 2 minute session of walking backwards, I have continued exploring the The KneesOverToesGuy videos and videos from others like Mark Bell featuring him. The primary goal of his work is to strengthen tendons and "bulletproof" the joints. I built a test program for myself addressing my weaknesses and injuries in different areas. Within just two weeks I was back up to doing my full S&S workout at pre-injury weight and was able to begin moving up in weight with my get-ups. My swings feel stronger in the shoulder and my knees don't bother me at all... even my semi-bum leg is tracking better. I need new, heavier, kettlebells now!

It is important to note that I use regressions where necessary and that my background as a therapist is in rehab so I was able to make the exercise selections myself. Not everyone will use the regressions when needed (be humble!) or know exactly what they need. Later this year I'm going to end up buying his program for a while just because I feel I've gotten so much value for free from his videos.

 

[clemsi]

I have a tennis elbow / epicondylitis since may this year - caused by the first long day on mountain bike of the season.
From that day I stopped biking and every kind of KB training and started with resting, PT, ice, wearing a brace etc. I made a huge progress when I started eccentric training with the flexbar, so that I could go again for some short rides without any pain.

At that time I wanted to start again with the KB training (mainly double KB programs like the Giant etc), but racking and pressing a moderate weight (2x20) and was not possible at all due to pain in the elbow.
I did some research and found that swings (I hated them) shall help with tennis elbow ( ) so I picked up an adequate program and startet in late summer with S&S. In the beginning I didn't have any issue while doing the program with 20 or 24kg, but now with 28kg the pain returns - not really during the workout but afterwards, especially at night and in the morning. I'm not quite sure if it's the program and/or another daily activity (no bike atm), but I will now take again a break from training and then start again with a lighter KB in the next weeks.

Does anyone have experience with S&S and tennis elbow? Is the TGU a critical movement if someone suffers from tennis elbow?

 

[Georgiaoutdoors]

I’ve read some information lately that the old approaches to tendon issues may be ineffective.

NSAIDS may actually exacerbate the problems long term.

Excessive rest may actually slow down healing. Rest during the acute phase of tendon injury is important, but then you probably want to start moving the area in whatever way possible the produces minimal pain (ie very light loads).


Then for chronic tendon issues isometric holds and slow lifting, particularly slow loaded eccentrics may facilitate tendon repair (ie for example 5151, 7171 lifting tempos). The classic example of this is high reps of weighted eccentric heel drops for Achilles tendon issues. Interestingly this was discovered by a PT experiencing Achilles tendon issues who wanted a surgery to repair his Achilles, but the doctor wouldn’t do the surgery unless he had a ruptured tendon. The PT was doing weighted eccentric heal drops trying to rupture his own Achilles so he could get the surgery and ended up fixing the issue.

I’ve also found that taking both types of collagen supplements helps with joint/tendon issues as does structuring nutrition to lower inflammation.

I’ve found the book “Built from Broken” to have some helpful information and corrective exercises.

 

[jayjo]

After doing Cleans for a while I found that I could NOT bend my elbows. I went to a physical therapist who massaged them out. I discovered that I was using my bicep to yank the weight instead of my shoulder and back muscles. I think if you do Kettlebell correctly you are using the Hips, Shoulders and Back muscles. Quads which rely on the knee as well as biceps and tricpes that rely on the elbow should get minimal work.

Also you can overuse your forearm muscles by overgripping. Try NOT using your thumb but just hook your fingers around the handle. It may also help to choose a kettlebell with a thinner handle, such as a competition kettlebell vs. iron.

 

[Bkb]

Five years ago I bought a kettlebell and begin a journey to attempt Simple and Sinister. After about seven months, I had to take a half-year break to heal some tendonitis (or tendonosis) in my knees and shoulder. I eventually started I started again, but several months later I had to take another long break due to tendonitis in my left forearm.
Today now I'm six months into another break from kettlebells, the fourth such extended break in five years.
I'm getting really tired of losing all my progress and essentially having to started over every 12 to 18 months.
What can I do to avoid tendinitis and tendonosis?
I've had my form checked by an SFG2 and told that it is fine. I'm 58 years old, so I'm sure that has a lot to do with it. I really want to get stronger to make my older years a little easier, but I'm making no progress.
Any thoughts on what I can do?

My two cents…. After literally getting elbow tendonitis (or shoulder impingement) semi annually, I have discovered this:

1. minimalism is great, but sometimes curls, skull crushers, front/side raises, wall sits, planks, and other accessory work goes a long way.

2. Sometimes spending 4-6 weeks on light/very high rep training goes a looooong way.

For the record, if I could just clean, press, squat, row and swing forever, I would. I love going heavy and/or doing medium weight with heavy volume…but, whenever I do these exclusively for 3-6 months with steady progress, I always get punched in the face with something naggy. ‘Pump’ work always helps me ramp up slowly and fix the above.

 

[clemsi]

@jayjo
I have only comp kettlebells, but those with 35mm handle diameter- dunno what the iron kbs have. Usually my thumb lies relaxed on the top of the handle, but I'll have an eye on this, if I change the grip unconsciously during the workout when things get more exhausting.

@Bkb
So what's your routine if the elbow tendonitis returns? Do you take a break or do you start immediately with the exercises/high rep training mentioned above?
Most PTs advice to rest in the acute phase, then (phase 2) use different stretches, maybe ice etc - some add eccentric training at that phase. Some skip the stretches and swear on eccentric training only, others on massage (for the blood flow) and use braces in addition etc.
I've tried that all for a specific time and still haven't found a routine to get finally rid of the tennis elbow - it's very frustrating.

 

[LukeV]

I had terrible tendinitis for years and I got on top of it after talking to gymnasts and climbers. This post sums up the approach. It was criticised because of its reliance on NSAIDS but my response is simply follow the approach of those who don't recommend NSAIDS then if/when that doesn't work follow this approach

Off-Topic - tennis elbow.....?

sucks yes?

www.strongfirst.com

 

[jayjo]

There is also a certain position the bell should be in when in goes between your legs at the bottom. Doing it wrong can lead to tendonitis. I would like at SWING THIS on youtube. The guy talks a lot about pain causing mistakes.

 

[Bkb]

@jayjo
I have only comp kettlebells, but those with 35mm handle diameter- dunno what the iron kbs have. Usually my thumb lies relaxed on the top of the handle, but I'll have an eye on this, if I change the grip unconsciously during the workout when things get more exhausting.

@Bkb
So what's your routine if the elbow tendonitis returns? Do you take a break or do you start immediately with the exercises/high rep training mentioned above?
Most PTs advice to rest in the acute phase, then (phase 2) use different stretches, maybe ice etc - some add eccentric training at that phase. Some skip the stretches and swear on eccentric training only, others on massage (for the blood flow) and use braces in addition etc.
I've tried that all for a specific time and still haven't found a routine to get finally rid of the tennis elbow - it's very frustrating.

When mine flares up, I typically follow the advise of the Mark Rippetoe camp…. Ibuprofen @600-800 mgs 3-4x per day for 3-4 days… then I start doing very light curls,triceps extensions and rows… I’ve used the Flexbar and done pronation and supination with light dumbbells. I also stretch my forearms on both sides….

I also find limiting heavy volume cleans and chin ups is helpful.

Mark Rippetoe has a gnarly routine on YouTube utilizing chin ups to get rid of elbow tendinitis within 3-4 weeks. It works.

Fwiw, the Bill Starr rehab protocol is something I’ve employed for almost all nagging injuries. Essentially doing the same exercise that created the pain/injury @light weight and slowly ramping up over 14 days. It’s typically a muscle belly rehab protocol but I used it for impingement successfully.

 

[bluejeff]

Pretty sure I have a post earlier in the thread, but since it’s been re-started….

Here’s my cliff notes, after having elbow tendinopathies for extended periods of time in the past:

TendonITIS is acute inflammation. So, if you do things to reduce inflammation like ice, NSAIDS, and rest, and it’s better after ~a couple weeks, you’re good.

If it’s ongoing longer than say,4-6weeks, it’s probably in a degenerative phase, tendonOSIS.

The latter seems more common. Here’s what worked for me:

Eccentrics for tissue healing. Experiment with load and reps.

Long eccentrics with shorter concentric, using a metronome to make the eccentric portion about twice as long as the concentric.

Have an experienced PT and/or coach evaluate your biomechanics. The elbow must transmit force between the hand and the shoulder/torso. If shoulder mechanics and or wrist mechanics aren’t “optimal” the elbow can suffer.

 

[GovernorSilver]

I had an elbow issue that was triggered while attempting an isometric bicep curl with too much force and bad technique. But I'd been abusing the elbow by too much holding of my iPad in one hand while fiddling with the touchscreen with other.

This video helped me out a lot:


After a few months of the sidelying thoracic windmill, wrist curls with a bag of soup cans, etc. I got a green Flexbar and it lived up to the hype: