Kettlebell Back soreness from swings

[Max Parish]

@Steve Freides - Thanks! I've found an SFG and have started some virtual coaching. It's going great so far.
Max

 

[Sergio]

I experienced something similar to you. Occasionally after a S&S session I would feel some tightness in my low back. It would go away after a few days so I didn't worry about it that much. Knowing what I know now from Mcgill's work, I was probably experiencing pain symptoms from a herniated/bulging disc. I was most likely teetering on a moderate bulge to severe bulge. Finally I met my breaking point doing some non SF related exercises and I had full-blown bulging disc symptoms that were verified by an MRI.

It's been about 1.5 years since that happened and as I reflect on my S&S training, I wasn't properly bracing my core during heavy swings. I got up to 48 KG and although I felt strong doing them, I don't think I practiced 100% intention (braced core) during the heavy swings. As you'll learn from Mcgill's work, a braced core is key to a healthy and functioning spine. Good luck.

 

[Nacho]

@PaulGy - Thanks for the reply. I definitely need to work on my right hamstring. I'll try that door stretch.

I found some very tender and tight spots in my hamstrings with a tennis ball size massage ball. Near the knee and near the groin. Need to sit on the edge of a chair to really find them. Feels really good to release those spots when they get tight and seems to have a connection to lower back as well.

 

[Nacho]

I'd like a 26 for high volume swinging sessions... but this is getting ridiculous! Hahaha!

I went on a 75 minute walk today instead of doing S&S. It felt very good. My body has been missing the LED training. I don't think anything can replace it. S&S has cardio and all in it, but it still isn't LED cardio. S&S is still primarily a kind of strength building programme: strength FIRST, of course. I still need the long easy cardio sessions to get everything pumping properly.

Walking and S&S is such a nice combo! I did daily walks and 3-4 S&S sessions a week for last spring and have now added walks again after golf season ended. On S&S days just for like 20 minutes and 1-2 times a week for an hour or so.

 

[Anders]

Earlier on I had some challenges with my back too. I found out it was due to lack of warming up. After I reintroduced 3 sets of goblet squat before starting with the swings, the pain has not come back. I Imagine it has to do with warming up the glutei and making them fire up before the sets of swings.

I also think being a bit warm is important before doing swings. And then finally the head position. You should focus on not looking down towards the floor.

These three things have helped me not getting back the back pain.

Hope this can help you too.

 

[Kozushi]

Walking and S&S is such a nice combo! I did daily walks and 3-4 S&S sessions a week for last spring and have now added walks again after golf season ended. On S&S days just for like 20 minutes and 1-2 times a week for an hour or so.

Yes. I've done experiments on myself where I only do S&S (daily for weeks) and nothing else, no walking, nothing, to see what happens. I end up feeling cranky, sore, I gain belly fat a bit. The S&S book even says we're supposed to get the heck out of the house and go for hikes, train martial arts, whatever. There is absolutely no replacement for long time steady state cardio training. Nothing, none. I'm not a scientist, but I think I've read about how long steady state cardio is very important for regulating hormones, cholesterol, fat in the bloodstream etc... It is also very important in keeping the heart and lung muscles strong without harming them from overdoing it.

Walking or any long time steady state cardio makes us better at S&S, judo, kendo, whatever, because it strengthens our heart and lungs in a safe way so that we can handle the harder, intense bursts needed for the harder sports.

This might seem like blasphemy to some here, but in my opinion long steady state cardio is a must, weights is a should.

 

[Max Parish]

I thought it's worth posting an update here. At the beginning of December I reached out to @Mark Limbaga for some virtual coaching. Securing the trained eyes of an SFG on a regular basis has paid off in spades. My back soreness is nearly gone, and I'm on track again toward my goal of Simple. Last week I completed 100 1H swings with the 32k, with no negative repercussions on the back. I'm delighted!

I still have a ways to go in terms of perfecting the swing technique, but I'm definitely moving forward again. Thank you, Mark, and thank you StrongFirst!

 

[Kozushi]

I thought it's worth posting an update here. At the beginning of December I reached out to @Mark Limbaga for some virtual coaching. Securing the trained eyes of an SFG on a regular basis has paid off in spades. My back soreness is nearly gone, and I'm on track again toward my goal of Simple. Last week I completed 100 1H swings with the 32k, with no negative repercussions on the back. I'm delighted!

I still have a ways to go in terms of perfecting the swing technique, but I'm definitely moving forward again. Thank you, Mark, and thank you StrongFirst!

Not trying to steal anyone's coaching secrets, but generally what helped you get to comfort with the heavier swings?

 

[Max Parish]

Not trying to steal anyone's coaching secrets, but generally what helped you get to comfort with the heavier swings?

@Kozushi - Sorry for the delay. Work has occupied a lot more of time these days.

The main issue was overextending my back at the top of the swing. After @Mark Limbaga helped me straighten that out, the soreness started receding.

Another contributory factor is the chair I sit in during my work day. I'm a professor, so the last half of December I was done teaching and was able to move around a lot more. That helped with the healing. When school started again in January, I started using an old drum throne I got from my uncle. I end up moving a lot more while I'm sitting, and I also naturally get up more, because my back gets tired from sitting with no backrest.

I've noticed one thing about myself that likely made me more prone to hyperextending at the top of the swing. My natural standing posture is not straight from shoulders to ankles. Instead, my hips tend to move forward, so my whole body is in a bit of a forward arc. When I first started standing ramrod straight by pulling my hips back, it felt like I was canted forward slightly, especially if I extended my arms as though at the top of a swing. After noticing this, I realized I was standing this way at the top of the GB SQ also. Straightening out, I found, required a lot more core and glute activation. I've been working on retraining my posture.

One more thing. I'm finally getting glute activation in the swing. This is due primarily to two things. One is some good coaching cues and guidance from @Mark Limbaga. The other was discovering that table tops activate my glutes a lot more than the hip bridge movement recommended in the S&S warm up.

 

[Kozushi]

@Kozushi - Sorry for the delay. Work has occupied a lot more of time these days.

The main issue was overextending my back at the top of the swing. After @Mark Limbaga helped me straighten that out, the soreness started receding.

Another contributory factor is the chair I sit in during my work day. I'm a professor, so the last half of December I was done teaching and was able to move around a lot more. That helped with the healing. When school started again in January, I started using an old drum throne I got from my uncle. I end up moving a lot more while I'm sitting, and I also naturally get up more, because my back gets tired from sitting with no backrest.

I've noticed one thing about myself that likely made me more prone to hyperextending at the top of the swing. My natural standing posture is not straight from shoulders to ankles. Instead, my hips tend to move forward, so my whole body is in a bit of a forward arc. When I first started standing ramrod straight by pulling my hips back, it felt like I was canted forward slightly, especially if I extended my arms as though at the top of a swing. After noticing this, I realized I was standing this way at the top of the GB SQ also. Straightening out, I found, required a lot more core and glute activation. I've been working on retraining my posture.

One more thing. I'm finally getting glute activation in the swing. This is due primarily to two things. One is some good coaching cues and guidance from @Mark Limbaga. The other was discovering that table tops activate my glutes a lot more than the hip bridge movement recommended in the S&S warm up.

Good choice hiring the pros. The pros are pros for a reason. It's good to read that you have overcome some important difficulties.

 

[Steve Freides]

Another contributory factor is the chair I sit in during my work day. I'm a professor,

I don't know what or how you teach, but my wife and I are or have been classroom teachers, including at the college level, and we both much prefer to stand when we teach. Perhaps you can stand more often when you're working? My wife is still working out back and hip issues she developed while sitting and teaching from home between mid-March and the end of the school year in 2020. She's now still doing some teaching from home but we've set her up so that she's standing most of the time, just like she prefers to do when she's at school.

-S-

 

[masa]

I’d avoid S&S until back problems are solved. In many cases goblet squats, 90-90 stretch and the swing with the kime can irritate back problems. Enphasis on can.

 

[Max Parish]

I don't know what or how you teach, but my wife and I are or have been classroom teachers, including at the college level, and we both much prefer to stand when we teach. Perhaps you can stand more often when you're working? My wife is still working out back and hip issues she developed while sitting and teaching from home between mid-March and the end of the school year in 2020. She's now still doing some teaching from home but we've set her up so that she's standing most of the time, just like she prefers to do when she's at school.

-S-

@Steve Freides - I teach philosophy, and right now, all my classes are asynchronous, online. So, I'm at the computer all day, but I have a lot of flexibility in terms of how I organize my work space and my schedule. Thanks for the cautionary note about your wife. Did you purchase a standing desk, or work out a DIY solution?

 

[Steve Freides]

@Steve Freides - I teach philosophy, and right now, all my classes are asynchronous, online. So, I'm at the computer all day, but I have a lot of flexibility in terms of how I organize my work space and my schedule. Thanks for the cautionary note about your wife. Did you purchase a standing desk, or work out a DIY solution?

My wife has her computer raised on some boxes, and is standing in front of the TV which is hooked up to the computer. She stands most of the time.

-S-

 

[SayeretJoe]

All - Many thanks for the responses!

@natewhite39 - Are there links to free information, or should I buy a book?

@Anna C - I do the QL straddle and 90/90 after every S&S session, and often in the evenings before bed (along with other stretches). I haven't noticed any significant differences in ROM, but possibly some decreased range in my leg angle in the straddle.

Here are my two hypotheses for what went wrong. First, I might have been rushing the first portion of the swing. I swung a 16k for a few months while waiting for my heavier bells. Eventually I started using my lats to accelerate the downswing, and use a very fast hipthrust to generate a quick upswing. That was the only way I felt it working my body. I might have gotten overly used to that rhythm. While I have not been accelerating the downswing with my 24k, I might be trying to accelerate the upswing at the wrong time. If I start too early, before the bell has started to reverse motion into the upswing, I might be using my lower back just a bit to accelerate it. I did notice that my back felt a bit better when I would slow things down and take a tad more time coming out of the bottom of the hip hinge, before sharply thrusting with the hips.

Here's my second, more recent hypothesis. My hamstrings have felt tight in the bottom of the hip hinge position, but I didn't notice until Anna C asked about stretching that my right hamstring is tighter than my left. Maybe my body is accomodating by bending slightly less on the right side, which would skew my tail slightly right, which would tighten up that right part of the lower back. This is consistent with something else I noticed. I thought at first that my right knee was caving a bit when doing 1H swings with my right hand. Pressing my knees out didn't seem to make much difference, so I moved on to other hypotheses. But maybe my knee was caving, but only as a symptom of a tight hamstring. Or, maybe it had the appearance of caving inward (to the left) because of my tail being skewed to the right.

I'm thinking it might be best to take some time off all strength exercises and focus on walking, stretching, bar hangs, crawls, and whatever Dr. McGill recommends.

If your hamstrings and back are tight it normally might mean that you have weak gluteus or just haven't woken the contraction sensation for the gluteus, this is why they use the back bridge to activate the gluteus before the swinging. I have similar pain so I am working on my gluteus contraction so that my lower back is not doing the grunt of the work. Hope you are living pain-free soon!