all posts post new thread

Kettlebell Beast Pistol

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
conor78

conor78

Level 6 Valued Member
Is there any kettlebell movement/weight that is equivalent to a Beast Pistol. I know this is hypothetical. I'm reading AR book taming the Beast. I've never trained the P.S and I can't see how I would even touch the sides of a pistol with a 32kg as ankle mobility isnt grest. Finished pressing R.O.P and could do a single 44kg so the press would be in touching distance and I can pull a 36kg so that's trainable.
Trying to map out what I'm doing across the year. Currently on A+A snatches with LSS which I'm really enjoying at the moment.
Running that till end of Feb then I have an endurance ruck event. Was thinking of using a template from the Beast Tamer early summer to train the press and Pull. Could you sub in a Double FSQ and train it in the same fashion to get a heavy single lift?
 
If you do the math on a pistol squat. Your single leg is squatting the weight of your bell + ~80% of your body weight. (assuming 1 leg = ~20% of your body weight).

If you go to double front squat, then 1 individual leg would support the weight of 1 bell +30% of your body weight.
whole body 100%
minus 2 legs -40%
equals 60%
divide that between the 2 legs = 30%

Therefore to get equivalent loading (at least for the legs) you need to double front squat the weight of 2 bells + add weight that equals you entire body weight.

Example: you pistol squat 48KG and you happen to weigh 100kg
Your single leg has to squat 48kg+80kg = 128kg

To double front squat enough to load both legs equally you need:
48kg+48kg+100kg = 196kg total of lifting weight (bells, barbells, weight vest, etc)
so then your legs squat 196kg + 60kg (your upper body)= 256kg
As you see each individual leg carries 256kg/2= 128kg

I get it that there are movement differences, your legs may not account for 40% of your weight, or that both legs may not share the loading equally, but you get the picture. Somebody can check my math, but it takes way more weight than just adding an extra bell.

Pistol squats ain't looking too bad now.

Good Luck!
 
I wish you hasn't run the maths on that:)
One of my first memories of seeing a kettlebell in action was watching fellow Irishman Ollie Quinn doing the Beast challenge in his garage and he knocks out 2 reps on the pistol Squat as if he were warming up..savage strength
 
Are you trying to actually do the Beast Tamer Challenge or just generally get stronger?

If it's the former, then nothing will work as well as doing the thing you're training for, which for you would likely mean working a fair amount on mobility and stability before you really load the movement (which you have time for if you're not planning on starting until early summer).

It it's the latter, I don't see any reason why there would be an issue with subbing in the front squat. You would just end up getting better at the front squat, which would certainly improve your pistol as well. More to the point, it would make you stronger, and fronts squats would probably allow you to train the squat more safely than pistols if you have mobility issues. You would probably notice an improvement in your ankle mobility after working front squats for a while (though you would still have to cut the depth on your front squats initially). That could then be rolled forward into a pistol program if you were really interested in it. If you really want a 48 kilo pistol, it sounds like it might take more than one cycle, anyways. A front squat cycle followed by a pistol cycle could work out well.

The impressive thing about the Beast Tamer Challenge is that it doesn't completely cater to anyone's strengths. Usually people can get close to one or two of the movements through general training, and then they have to really focus on the other one or two.
 
Snowman said:
Are you trying to actually do the Beast Tamer Challenge or just generally get stronger?

If it's the former, then nothing will work as well as doing the thing you're training for, which for you would likely mean working a fair amount on mobility and stability before you really load the movement (which you have time for if you're not planning on starting until early summer).

It it's the latter, I don't see any reason why there would be an issue with subbing in the front squat. You would just end up getting better at the front squat, which would certainly improve your pistol as well. More to the point, it would make you stronger, and fronts squats would probably allow you to train the squat more safely than pistols if you have mobility issues. You would probably notice an improvement in your ankle mobility after working front squats for a while (though you would still have to cut the depth on your front squats initially). That could then be rolled forward into a pistol program if you were really interested in it. If you really want a 48 kilo pistol, it sounds like it might take more than one cycle, anyways. A front squat cycle followed by a pistol cycle could work out well.

The impressive thing about the Beast Tamer Challenge is that it doesn't completely cater to anyone's strengths. Usually people can get close to one or two of the movements through general training, and then they have to really focus on the other one or two.[/QUOTE
That's very true. It's a great all round strength challenge. The training plans in the book look solid but as you said it could takes a lot of time to even try to pattern that movement. Time is something I don't have a lot of so any program I follow now is based of movements that I'm comfortable with(save the C and J) Props to any man or lady(iron maiden) who nails it.
Click to expand...
 
That's very true. It's a great all round strength challenge. The training plans in the book look solid but as you said it could takes a lot of time to even try to pattern that movement. Time is something I don't have a lot of so any program I follow now is based of movements that I'm comfortable with(save the C and J) Props to any man or lady(iron maiden) who nails it.
 
I was practicing pistols this morning using a technique I saw on Tracy Cook's Instagram (screen capture of her post below; @tracyhcook; I think @Zack is her coach so he might chime in on this) -- hold onto TRX for assistance, and I imagine you could rig up something else as well to do the same thing. Anyway, it worked great for me! Seems like you could work on moblilty, strength, and technique using this and build towards unassisted or lighly loaded, then work on heavily loaded.

upload_2019-1-8_14-32-23.png
 
My vote goes to Skater squats in this case. Is much easier in terms of ankle mobility. You have more leverage so you can load it up more, but is still plenty challenging and hits more of a traditional high bar squat mechanics.

I can do about 2x the additional load for comparable reps compared to loaded pistols. So if using a 40# KB for reps with the pistol I might top out with a 90# sandbag on the skaters for a comparable number of reps.

You can also roll a heavier KB right up onto your traps. For a mind bending challenge, rest the KB on your tailbone as you would for a KB Hack squat and try to do a Skater - is even harder than a pistol similarly loaded. I normally put the load low across my shoulders.
 
Keep in mind that the heaviest pistol I've ever done or tried is 32kg, so I don't have relevant beast pistol experience.

My favorite pistol learning strategy is elevating the heel. Elevating the heel makes the balance and leverage easier and reduces the demand for ankle mobiity, while still allowing you to develop a stable freestanding pistol groove.

As compared to using an external object for stability or a bilateral SQ variation, I think elevating the heel is more like doing a standard pistol and has more direct carryover.

To elevate the heel, you can use weight plates or sheets of plywood or rig up some kind of slant board. A inclined flat surface feels more natural than just sticking something under the heel. Any inclined surface you can find around you can work (an inclined driveway, a wheelchair ramp, random hill, etc.) but you won't have control over the amount of elevation. A shoe with a raised heel, like an OL shoe, can work, and depending on how much help you need, even a normal dress shoe or work boot with a good sized heel can be the difference.
 
Great feedback as always in the forum..cheers Steve..Just noticed there is SFG1 in Belfast this April...mmmm
 
Anna C said:
I was practicing pistols this morning using a technique I saw on Tracy Cook's Instagram (screen capture of her post below; @tracyhcook; I think @Zack is her coach so he might chime in on this) -- hold onto TRX for assistance, and I imagine you could rig up something else as well to do the same thing. Anyway, it worked great for me! Seems like you could work on moblilty, strength, and technique using this and build towards unassisted or lighly loaded, then work on heavily loaded.

View attachment 7600
Click to expand...

I came up with this idea a while back. It uses a lat pulldown machine to give assistance:




The video sucks , but you get the idea. In this case I was using 20 kg of assistance.

It has a few benefits compared to the trx IMO:

  • You can select and control the degree of assistance very precisely, and progress overload accordingly.
  • It doesn't offer assistance with balance.
  • It pulls forward and upwards. It therefore reduces the load and assists on not falling on your butt.
  • You can control the assistance to achieve a reasonable number of reps, 5 for instance.
  • It's pretty easy to work on a sticking point this way. In my case, out of the hole. I could do sets of 10 reps of short ROM at the bottom of the squat for instance.

Pistols are a goal of mine. After reaching Simple I'll start working on them .
 
Nice. Interesting rig!
 
Hi guys I’m new here I KNOW I will learn a lot and hopefully be able to contribute some as well.

Conor, I suffered some ankle issues stemming from a fractured ankle and subsequent ORIF to install some hardware from Thai boxing when I was younger.

One thing that helped me tremendously was to get down in a pigeon stretch on the ground sometimes called a pretzel stretch as well, and really dig into the gastro/soleus tie in and the upper calf near the knee with a mobility instrument of some sort. You can buy the fancy expensive ones but I actually use the horn of a small kettlebell holding it upside down and it works great in addition to providing a little extra weight (torture).

If you’re anything like me you can probably take your pick and find a half dozen spots on the side of the calf behind the shin bone that can be worked on and it will definitely help with ankle mobility.

Second recommendation, I started doing this morning 5 minute flow routine from a gymnastics/kb guy named max shank. He espouses one in particular where you spend five minutes hanging from rings in the full squat position. During this time I generally flow from hanging overhead squat to Cossack squats, to pistols and spend quite a bit of time in the pistol position. Not only does this feel great (something about the hanging) but for me, spending those couple minutes everyday in the bottom position of the pistol really helped establish a high level of comfort for me there. Best of luck in your endeavor!

Tony
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom