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Old Forum Beginner. My Goals. Some advise appreciated.

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Severian

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Hi Guys,
First time poster here. Thanks for taking the time to read.
I'm 23 year old guy from England, stand a little over 6ft tall
and weigh around 125 pounds (I know).
I have always been a skinny and relatively weak guy with alot
of body confidence issues. Body transformation has been
something that I think about almost daily for many years now.
I discovered this forum after reading up on kettlebells,
calisthenics and of course Pavel himself. Nothing i've read on
the subject of strength and bodybuilding has inspired me as
much as these topics.
I have never aspired to have the body of a typical 200+ pound
gym goer or bodybuilder. I'm looking to build a lean and
functional physique typicaly associated with fighters or
soldiers.
My goal is first and foremost to get strong and in the longrun
add about 30-40 pounds of lean muscle to my frame. I want to
achieve this with KBs and Cals.
Can anyone suggest where I should begin? I'm pretty sure I
know where I need to be from a nutrition standpoint.
Thanks Guys!
 
Hi Jack, welcome to the forum.

I don't know what your metabolism is like but 30 -40 lbs. muscle might take you 2 - 5 years.  Barbells are the quickest way to bulk up, but you want to do it with kettlebells and bodyweight exercises.  If I where you, I'd get the books Simple & Sinister, and Naked Warrior.  Then dedicate one solid year to getting stronger.  If you do running or bicycling for distance, Stop!  Spinting  once or twice a week is OK.  Also look into the fighter pullup program on the blog here.  Without strength, your options are limited in the exercises needed to build quality muscle.  Biuld your strength base first.  Don't miss a meal!

Al
 
Hi Jack,

Welcome to the forum! I'm a big fan of keeping things as simple as possible, especially for beginners. I'd say do either:

a) power to the people if you want to use a barbell (use bench press instead of side press; Pavel's thinking on this has changed) and follow the program as written (the regular one, not bear) until you hit a double bodyweight deadlift, and report back.

b) Simple & sinister if you want to use kettlebells until you hit the simple goals, then report back.

Pavel's fighter pullup program makes a good addition to either one of these. Pick one, do it. Do not try to combine right now, just do one.

In all likelihood, you can do either of these in well under a year, probably in well under 6 months if you can follow directions and really apply yourself. While doing this, your appetite will probably increase. Good, eat, including the protein of your choice. Get plenty of sleep as well, and try to minimize stress in your life (really, this advice applies to almost every goal).
 
"I don’t know what your metabolism is like but 30 -40 lbs. muscle might take you 2 – 5 years."

I hate to be so confrontational, but this is nonsense. 30-40 pounds should take 4-6 months if you do it right. Doing it right means lifting heavy, eating a lot of high quality food (likely at least 5,000 calories/day), and getting enough sleep. Barbells are the best way to do this. Rippetoe's Starting Strength or Dan John's Mass Made Simple would be great options.

Also, don't be afraid to pursue some size because it seems too vain. This is a health issue for you, give that you are terribly underweight. I think that a final weight of 180 should be your minimum goal, not just for the sake of appearance, but for health as well.

If you want to use kettlebells, the results will come slower, but they will come. You just need to progress every workout. Pavel has recommended Escalating Density Training before, and it has worked well for me. Pick a few basic double kettlebell  lifts: press, front squat, single leg deadlift or swings, farmers walks and pull-ups. Increase the number of reps you can get in a set amount of time (15 minutes works well). When you can get 50-60 reps in that time, use bigger bells. Once you are hitting those numbers with 32kg bells, you should not be small anymore.
 
The best advice I could give is: get a coach.  Look for an SFG in your area.  I dithered around for 10 years on-and-off with mediocre results and much discouragement until I decided to go get a real coach.  In hindsight a little research and a little $ spent would have gone a long, long way.  Good luck!
 
Welcome, Jack!

If you want to use kettlebells, buy Simple & Sinister and follow it exactly. It's great for beginners and the more advanced. I've put on 10 pounds since starting it a couple months ago (putting on weight is not a goal for me, though, just a welcomed side effect). Good luck!
 
As a former skinny guy (6' 1" 135 lbs to 190) I have to wonder why you would come up with the limitation that you want to do this with KBs and bodyweight only? Someone said famously "Keep the main thing, the main thing". Is your primary goal to get strong or is it to build 30-40 lbs of lean muscle? I just wouldn't recommend diluting either by giving yourself a method or tool restriction unless that's all you have reasonable access to use. And I'm sure if you want something badly enough, you can find other heavy objects to lift in the necessary fashion.

All that being said, The Right of Passage definitely put some size on my shoulders and S&S is putting some size on all over for me. However, I am looking to up my mass building, so I'm dropping my frequency of S&S and adding some barbell work (BP and high rep Back Squats) to see if I can get my chicken legs to grow a bit. If you'll allow barbell work in the mix, I would recommend Mass Made Simple as the starting point for you. The KB is a great tool but not the only one. Good luck!

 
 
Check out Dan John's "Mass Made Simple" and make sure you are proficient with the lifts he talks about in the book.

It's very simple but definitely not easy.
 
Hi Jack, and welcome. What experience do you have, and what do you have access to? For your goals kettlebells and bodyweight CAN work, but it is not optimal. Do you have access to a barbell? If not, what size kettlebells?
 
Sorry Scientist, I thought 2 years was a good goal for someone who is probably a hard gainer, and is only going to use cals to get there.  5 years was a stretch I guess, but  a worst case scenario for someone with the worst genetics and a total crap diet (Vegan).  I do agree that barbells are the fastest way to muscle, and it can be done in 6 - 12 months.  But Jack said: No barbells, No bodybuilding, therfore I took it as also no whey protien, no extreme eating plan.

I stand my ground, 40 lbs. muscle in 2 years, KBs & Cals., and no extreme diet.  He wants to look like a warrior, and at 165 he will!
 
Thank you for your considered replies everyone, Perhaps I need to clarify a few points.

I am not against barbell training as such, it's just that kettlebells and calisthenics have peaked an interest in me. From what I can tell they seem to forge the kind of strength and physique I aspire to have.

I am a complete begginer & whatever route I go down I have to be able to workout from home, I do not live near a gym.

I am not looking for the big bodybuilder look but I am happy to apply the training and diet principles of bodybuilders.

Please forgive my noobie ingorance but if KBs aren't an optimal choice, what are KBs an optimal choice for?

Thank again for your time guys, I look forward to any responses!

 
 
Hi Jack,

Lots of great replies so far.  I don't think there is any one right answer, so I'll just weigh in with my thoughts and experiences

I'm pretty similar to you, though perhaps was not quite as thin.  All through high school and college I weighed 145 to 150 at a height of 6'1".  I spent all my time doing endurance work, and only occasionally did some bodyweight exercises.

A few years ago (I'm now in my early 30's) I discovered kettlebells.  I enjoyed how they could act as both strength work and aerobic work.  Plus they were just fun.  I worked mostly on the PM and ROP, and over a year or so I got into the high 150's.  I was also still cycling, running, and xc skiing a lot.

When I got a barbell I did start putting on more weight.  I also stopped doing endurance stuff altogether (mostly due to other life changes).  After a few years of alternating 2-4 months on kettlebell programs (mostly ROP and now S and S) and then 2-3 months on simple barbell programs (PTTP, 5 x 5, etc), I got up to a not at all impressive 176 pounds.

I only share this to let you know that if you are not in a huge hurry, and you really like kettelbell stuff, you could have a lot of fun going back and forth between kettlebells and barbells and see some pretty nice results.  I'm still looking to add another 10 pounds of muscle or so.  But I'm still not in a hurry; I'm just enjoying the journey.

My final advise would be to pick a solid program that sounds fun to you and just follow it for many months.  Then re-evaluate.  Eat a lot, and enjoy the newbie gains.  No matter what you do, you will initially get bigger and stronger.
 
Jack,

Kettlebells are for everyone. Beginners and elites alike. The reason people are recommending barbells is because it is easier to pack on muscle with them. Especially for beginners. Simply put, you can work up to a relative big deadlift/squat/bench press fast and since they put alot more overall stress on your body as opposed to a single kettlebell it forces more growth.

Kettlebells are also effective, but in my experience you need to work up to atleast a 32k to see some real results. 2 kettlebells are also better for mass because that puts more overall stress on your body much in the same way that the barbell does.

In my opinion you should get Simple and Sinister and follow it until you've completed the Simple goals. After this you can change to a double kettlebell plan if you need further growth.
 
I agree that a barbell and a simple program with deadlifts, squats, and presses would be a good start, and would be more effective and efficient than kettlebells in the beginning. I just think you would get faster results because of the reasons given before - more weight used, greater stress on the system.

That said, several people here have said they have put on some muscle with S&S, and it does seem like those results are most evident with the simple goals are reached. That is my goal right now, and I'm using only kettlebells.

Also, as mentioned earlier, you're going to have to start eating more. You won't gain weight without a surplus of calories.
 
Many ways to skin the cat. If you aren’t completely overwhelmed with options by this point, I can attest from personal experience that completing the “Rite of Passage” from Enter The KB and moving on to the block training template of Return of The KB put a LOT of quality weight on my frame, and mass genuinely wasn’t the primary goal (just a pleasant side effect). There is truly something almost magical about what the long cycle clean & jerk can do for a skinny man if he sticks with it.
 
After some reflection on all the thoughtful responses, I have gone ahead and purchased Simple and Sinister!

I will read through and report back.

In the mean time can anyone recommend where to buy quality KBs in the UK?

All the best guys.

 
 
I think you're making the right choice Jack. You don't need to worry about the details too much right now, you just need to train, and eat. If kettlebells and bodyweight are fun and interesting to you, do that. A lot of people have gotten stronger that way, and that's what you need. You've chosen a good program, now stick with it.

One further thought; you mentioned some confidence issues. Yes, I'd like to see you weigh more at your height, but I recommend not making that your main goal right now. Instead, focus more on getting stronger. There is a deep, inner satisfaction that comes from lifting progressively heavier weights that, ime, trumps things like an inch on your biceps or 6 pack abs when it comes to confidence and self-satisfaction.
 
Hi Jack,

All the best with S&S, there are a few options available in the UK, depending on how much you wish to spend...

1. Kettlebell Fever have just launched the black series (also, if you are anywhere near Bracknell, it would be strongly advisable to go visit James and team - they have free classes too sometimes).

2. Wolverine Fitness do decent bells, my 16kg is from them

3. Intense Fitness bells are meant to be very good but expensive

4. Kettlebells.co.uk carry a budget range as well as the US Mettrix which are high quality

I would personally avoid the eBay and Amazon bells.
 
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