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Old Forum Bodybuilders within the strong first system

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Rickard

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Evening fellas,

Do we have any people who activley mix strong first training with bodybuiling? I really like the book beyond bodybuilding, it contains everything, but do we have any active bodybuilders on this site?

 

I saw that master SFG Fabio Zonin has done a bit of bodybuilding and found an amazing article by him and I would really like to see more actually.

 

We all know that there are good powerlifters that have benefited from this system. I've seen a few olympic weightlifters. We have a couple of GS athletes here. I feel like we have everything but bodybuilders or are they hiding?

I'm not asking because I'm thinking of competing. Or actually incorporating any bodybuilding moves in my training. I've been curious about this a long time though and the Dan John post with the article containing chinese weightlifting corriculum got me thinking more.
 
StrongFirst training needn't be mixed with bodybuilding - one can be a StrongFirst bodybuilder.  Focus on being as strong as you look, follow the principles.

StrongFirst gives you the tools with which to master your body - what you do with those tools is up to you, and bodybuilding is certainly one of your choices.

Why aren't there more bodybuilders here on the forum?  At the end of the day, a bodybuilding contest isn't about strength, it's about appearance, but that doesn't mean you can't decide to take a StrongFirst approach to becoming a bodybuilder, it just means that you might do things differently than your bodybuilding colleagues.  Is it easier just to get big and than become big and strong?  Undoubtedly, but it's better.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

-S-
 
I currently compete in bodybuilding and adhere to many StrongFirst principles as well as bodybuilding principles.  But I also work as a strength coach and train athletes.  Athletes benefit from a StrongFirst approach to their training vs.  a bodybuilding approach.  This is true even if their goal is hypertrophy.

You don't see a lot of bodybuilders on this forum because the kettlebell is still foreign to most competitive bodybuilders.  And I'm talking bodybuilders who only compete in bodybuilding, not athletes who compete in bodybuilding.  There is a difference.  Bodybuilding does not require athleticism and the more you adhere to bodybuilding principles only, the more athleticism you lose.   In addition, there are other forums solely devoted to bodybuilding and those who want to be physique competitors.

Lastly, very few bodybuilders know how to use kettlebells or they associate them with crossfit, therefore they don't see the benefit of using them.   And I honestly think that the learning curve to using KB's sometimes makes most just shy away. Nobody wants to look silly during their training.  And trust me, I've seen many bodybuilders pick up a kettlebell, look rather silly using it and never pick it up again.

 
 
Steve - This was the kind of answer I was expecting :)

 

Ken - Thank you for that! That was the kind of answer I was hoping for. But when you say that bodybuilders associate kettlebells with crossfit I have to say that I think the male top competitiors in crossfit looks a bit like bodybuilders. All the best of luck mate!
 
SF system is focused on how to make someone strong. So if there is an increase in muscle mass this is a "pleasant" side effect. I put "pleasant" in quotes because in some cases increasing muscle mass and bodyweight is not the desired effect. Think about athletes that compete in weight classes: they want to be the strongest in their weight class rather than end up in a higher weight class. Or think about members of special units, martial artists and so on... they don't want to become heavier. So for someone hypertrophy is a good thing, for others it is something to avoid.

And I believe that one of the reasons why the system became so popular among that type of people is not only because it has revealed to be so effective in its semplicity, but also because it answered to the question:"can I become immensly strong while staying supple and without becoming heavy and look like a powerlifter or a bodybuilder?".

Until lets say a decade ago in the western strength training culture (talking about my country, but I believe there's not much difference in the US) it seemed that there was no chance of increasing strength without affecting the size of the muscles. Well, Russians (at least one Russian guy) knew better!

When I first got in touch with the system I thought I was pretty strong... then I was amazed when I had a chance to meet people that were half of my size and much stronger than I was.

So, to the questions:

"are there SF bodybuilders around?"
"are there members of the SF community that are also interested in building muscle mass?"
 "is the system suitable also for hypertrophy rather than only strength?"

The answer is yes. It is a matter of adjusting the parameters, with a special attention to the volume.

The Russian Bear program out of Power to the People! comes to my mind right now, but lately Pavel has sent out several experimental programs, many of which aim also to hypertrophy.

The kind of hypertrophy promoted by those programs is myofibrillar hypertrophy rather than the mostly mithocondrial and sarcoplasmatic hypertrophy promoted by many bodybuilding programs out there. Also white and intermediate muscle fibers are much more involved. Furthermore the system is based on fundamental movements, rather than isolation exercises. All this adds a cherry to the cake: not only one can make his muscles grow, but he will also become stronger. In this case “stronger” is the pleasant side effect and “pleasant” doesn’t need quotes :)

I personally know and trained quite a few Italian competitive natural bodybuilders with SF principles and with kettlebells, barbells and bodyweight exercises with great results (also my wife trained in this manner for her last two bodybuilding competitions).

So why is the system not (yet) so popular among bodybuilders? Well… take a look at commercial gyms. Do you see kettlebells there? Very uncommon. And if there are some their use is often reserved only for clients under the guide of a personal trainer. It is hard to find a power rack and if there is one, the plates you find are mostly those octagonal ones who make very hard to do deadlifts. Good pullups bars are also hard to find, while almost any gym has those "easy traction" machines. Also in many gyms they wouldn't allow one to train barefoot.  On the other side in kettlebell equipped gyms you can also find power racks, barbells and pullup bars, but there's no bodybuilding equipment there.

Actually one doesn’t need bodybuilding equipment to train for hypertrophy or even for a bodybuilding event once he has at his disposal kettlebells, barbells and pullup bars and he knows how to do it. It’s just a matter of spreading the knowledge among bodybuilders. It is a hard job, as most bodybuilders fear that they are going to loose muscle mass if they give up their curls. But we can prove them the opposite.

This is one of the reasons why I haven’t been doing any sort of curls in the last 5 years… ;-)

 
 
Fabio and Ken,

Thank you for your detailed responses! Great to get your perspectives.
 
<!--more-->I wouldn't call myself a bodybuilder but I have used methods such as the bear program to great success. I went from a 176 lbs to 170 lbs. 10 lbs of fat loss and 7 lbs of muscle gained. I feel I've developed a pretty good physique with a double bodyweight deadlift and pressing two 70 lbs kettlebells for a couple of reps with the low rep approach. Not the best but happy with the programs.
 
Well said Fabio!

I will add my two cents as a former competitive bodybuilder for over twenty years.I came across the kettlebell after my competitive days.IMO the KB would of been a great tool in the tool box of equipment and exercises.First off I've often thought of what kind of condition(body fat levels)i could of been in had i been able to do swings as my cardio instead of a treadmill or bike.I was in pretty good condition but i could of been better.I did years of behind the neck pressing with a barbell for years which gave me impressive shoulders but also the injuries that came along with the movement.Had i had access to kettlebells back then i could of got basically the same deltoid stimulation with double presses with weight displacement being similar to the behind the neck press without the shoulder issues.Movements like the windmill would of definitely increased muscularity in the mid section and low back.The KB hack squat would of been a great finisher in a leg workout being similar to the sissy squat and focusing on the quads.Those are just a few movements that come to mind when i think traditional type bodybuilding with the kettlebell.The draw back these days is you need to learn how to use the tool and the KB has a larger learning curve than barbells,dumbbells and machines.It is my opinion that some kettle bell  movements could be a good tool to integrate into ones routine to enhance bodybuilder physique .
 
Steve B, thank you for your answer.

This thread is shaping up better than I ever thought.
 
If your question was about mr Olympia style bodybuilding then I don't think however that there is to many here.
However if your question was about "physical culture" (-style bodybuilding) then you have lots here.

Currently on Return of the Kettlebell, if there ever was such a thing as _the program_ for "Power-bodybuilding" this might be it. My take on it is that you can grow huge (especially the back and shoulders) with huge numbers following it (unfortunately I am small with big numbers following, but rest assured I will be the biggest man ever!)

The bear is a great program if you desire that effects from a program. I did it 6 weeks with sumo-deadlifts and my legs got swollen from it.  (no pressing due to a crack in the base of the hand)
And then a year after I did it with conventional deadlifts, got a nice touch of "lifters back" (erectors from hell!). Did 3-5 "heavy" presses every other set (2 deadlift-sets, 1 set presses)

Then you have programs such as Kettlebell Muscle which I assume is for making muscle?

And Dan John has very many programs for putting on some mass (hopefully muscle).

Think we have a great pool of knowledge about "bodybuilding"here and a lot of "bodybuilders".

And to the last statement about not incorporating bodybuilding. There would be nothing wrong about doing something (forgive me for my use of the following word) "functional" 3sets x8 reps straight leg raises or lat pulldowns after your session...
But...Double bent over curls (like getting a double armbar...) of those leg-kick-machines I would stay away from.
 
Thank you SuperJoel. My comment about not incorporating them was simply due to being very happy with what I do atm, obiovusly there is a bit of curiousity otherwise I wouldn't have asked. But then again I am curious about alot of things and in no real hurry.
 
I have a colleague that steps on the stage every once in a while. He does a periodized program, mostly hypertrophy/bodybuilding oriented. But he does a strength phase to develop that myofibrillar tissue every once in a while using a lot of the strength principles we're familiar with. I was told strength benefits hypertrophy, and hypertrophy can have a beneficial effect on strength. If he gets stronger during his strength phase, when he transitions to hypertrophy he'll be lifting that much heavier and getting that much bigger. It works for him.
 
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