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Breathwork: Buteyko, Pranayama, Wim Hof, etc

bookcase

Level 1 Valued Member
Hi all. I am reading around breathwork for anti-anxiety effects more than anything but am aware that various techniques have also been suggested for performance and health. Stanford Prof of Neurology Andrew Huberman is a proponent.

Have you tried any techniques? What benefits, if any, did you notice on mood, wellbeing, athleticism?

There do appear to be disagreements around attaining the same goal, too. Buteyko says that increasing blood CO2 leads to (as well as physical) relaxation benefits. Huberman recommends extended exhale as a way to lower blood CO2 to lead to relaxation.

So many techniques and conflicting data!
 
This is a complex area and there are various views, esoteric concepts and a bit of marketing information thrown in. Even those interested in the highest good will want to bring others to their method which may have a religious component.

Both mind and body may relax. A human being can physically relax whilst manifesting an extreme fight-flight response. If you are in a life threatening situation a squirt of adrenaline may be very helpful, even life saving. But, in the practice of deep mental relaxation it is unhelpful. The reverse ie a swing from sympathetic into parasympathetic together with a reduction in mental activity is what is wanted. Clearly, zero mental activity cannot be achieved without death, however, one can drastically reduce mental activity whilst remaining awake and not asleep nor unconscious. In this state one dimly know one is awake. The mind is still with only this simple awareness. Afterwards, one is calmed and occasionally the calm is profound.

It is important to understand that this state of mental stillness can only be reached by deep mental relaxation. The use of mantras, breathing concentration and so on all involve mental activity and so the end state is "contaminated" by these things and the mind is not still.

The method I have summarized is that of the late eminent psychiatrist Dr Ainslie Meares who explains it in a couple of books (eg Ainslie Meares on Meditation). Meares believed that the still mind state that results from deep mental relaxation is probably not unlike that of our remote human ancestors. This deep mental relaxation is thus a normal human function, the minds own natural method of reducing tension, anxiety and fear which some people refer to as "stress".

In summary,
  • sit in a chair, hands in lap.
  • relax the body
  • relax the mind
  • effortlessly allow the relaxation to expand
  • then the mind will slow and still - it feels like it is almost doing it by itself due to the effortlessness.
  • practice is for about 10 mins or so twice a day (you can finetune later on).
  • outside of meditation practice cultivate the feeling of calm and ease - Meares' referred to this feeling as the onward flow or onflow of meditation.
Some people are able to get the knack with just this little information but it will take longer than via a good set of instructions such as the book mentioned above. The books explains what to experience so you have a better idea and then the quality of practice is increased which shortens the learning time. A bit like physical training except the actual practice involves that effortlesness I mentioned. Those who try, strive, make, concentrate, focus and so on will find that the stillness eludes them.

Edit: Personally, I find this approach very helpful in recovery from physical training but that is minor compared to the benefits on many other aspects of living. Meares wrote it was a step towards a better life and I strongly agree on that point. In the area of still mind meditation the best way to know it is to experience it for yourself.
 
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I have found Huberman’s breath work protocol (box breathing) to be helpful for recovery when I get to the pointy end (high volume/intensity) of training blocks. It’s well worth trying if you’re struggling or wanting to optimise recovery - only 5-10 minutes after an intense training session.

I can’t personally talk to the anti-anxiety impact but there’s some of the peer reviewed research listed under the articles section here: How to Breathe Correctly for Optimal Health, Mood, Learning & Performance.
 
If you're after anti-anxiety effects as you say, the simplest thing is to learn how to sit right. Right means without moving, back unsupported and erect in a relaxed way. If you can do that - either as a meditation and/or throughout the day, after a while your mind will calm down - just like a pond left undisturbed.

However, the vast majority of people find that they can't simply sit even for 5 minutes without moving or getting lost in their thoughts. So, various practices like asanas, pranayama, and others are utilized as a preparatory step to bring balance on the physiological and psychological levels. Can this be achieved simply by practicing breath awareness? Yes - but in my experience, it will take much longer (both in terms of required daily practice and how long it takes to see tangible benefits).

I used to do 20-minute breath-watching meditations twice a day for a long time, but the effects weren't even close to what I experienced after I learned an actual practice (in my case, it was Inner Engineering). For the investment of around 30 minutes a day, becoming 10-20 % happier and more alive on a day-to-day basis and slowly raising my baseline over time felt like a damn good deal (not to mention that things like anxiety are now largely a thing of the past).
 
bookcase said:
Hi all. I am reading around breathwork for anti-anxiety effects more than anything but am aware that various techniques have also been suggested for performance and health. Stanford Prof of Neurology Andrew Huberman is a proponent.

Have you tried any techniques? What benefits, if any, did you notice on mood, wellbeing, athleticism?

There do appear to be disagreements around attaining the same goal, too. Buteyko says that increasing blood CO2 leads to (as well as physical) relaxation benefits. Huberman recommends extended exhale as a way to lower blood CO2 to lead to relaxation.

So many techniques and conflicting data!
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My personal journey began with a book no one mentions anymore, "Reversing Asthma" by Paul Sorvino. He was a well-known actor and so is his daughter, Mira. It definitely helped me.

I later learned about Buteyko, which I studied one-on-one Eduard Reuvers. Eduard's web site, Advanced Buteyko Institute | Buteyko Breathing Courses & Instruction, lists me as one of his Master Instructors. Health benefits - I was on two asthma/allergy medications 365 days a year, and through Buteyko I was able to first lower my dosage and then eliminate both medicines completely. Other - the "relaxation benefits" are almost impossible for me to describe; suffice it to say they were and are substantial. I cannot say my Buteyko breathing practice improved or hurt my athletic performance - that was not and is not my focus.

-S-
 
I think any type of breath work that increases CO2 tolerance and uses diaphragmatic breathing is beneficial. Try out different methods and see what you enjoy. Read Breath by James Nestor as a kick starter guide.

I personally tried everything from box breathing to free dive tables but what I found works for me is a few rounds of the Ol Wim Hof Method in the mornings.
 
@bookcase Strongfirst has a video course, Second Wind Express, that I found super helpful. It is expensive, but it explains the science and benefits of hypoxic breath holds (temporary low oxygen levels) and hypercapnic breath holds (increased CO2). The course also has some basic breathing protocols and goals to work towards. After a few months of practicing some of the breathing techniques I definitely feel calmer and less stressed.

I'm sorry if my descriptions are vague, but I can't post specifics in the forum since it's a paid course. If you can afford it, I recommend checking it out.
 
I have been doing the Wim Hof Method for over two years now. I am fortunate that I dont suffer from stress or anxiety (over and above normal levels) so cant say if it helps there. I dont feel like it has helped in any athletic sense but I was and like to think am pretty fit even before I started so maybe would help someone from a lower starting point. What it has done for me is a) it feels awesome when you do it, very trippy and relaxing and b) my immune system seems to be off the scales compared to before I started this. My wife is a teacher and I have an 8 and 9 year old so ALL illnesses come through my door, and I used to catch the lot. Now I either dont catch them at all or if on the rare occasion I do the symptoms are much much less severe to the point I hardly notice, I know I have a bug or whatever, but it just doesn't effect me and doesn't stop me going about my day normally. Is it the WHM or not, I will never know, but I will carry on with it anyway. It seems to help IMO.
 
bookcase said:
Hi all. I am reading around breathwork for anti-anxiety effects more than anything but am aware that various techniques have also been suggested for performance and health. Stanford Prof of Neurology Andrew Huberman is a proponent.

Have you tried any techniques? What benefits, if any, did you notice on mood, wellbeing, athleticism?

There do appear to be disagreements around attaining the same goal, too. Buteyko says that increasing blood CO2 leads to (as well as physical) relaxation benefits. Huberman recommends extended exhale as a way to lower blood CO2 to lead to relaxation.

So many techniques and conflicting data!
Click to expand...
If you are into the martial art side of things, The Russian martial art called Systema incorporates Breath and Body work and is pretty incredible. There are dedicated Breath and Body classes, so if you aren't into the fighting side of things, you can just focus on that. It's all about breathing to regenerate during stressful or fearful situations. Systema - Russian Martial Arts
 
Thanks to you all for your very helpful posts. Got plenty pointers and research, brilliant.

Thanks again.
 
All these Wim Hof, Huberman..... it's like seeing Arnold in Comando and thinking that he's actually so cool)) I don't want to be categorical, but I came to this conclusion when I accidentally saw a brochure on the Internet for submarine sailors who are long months in underwater in a closed environment. The 20-page brochure briefly describes the psychological burden in such conditions and gives several options for breathing exercises depending on the situation: panic, depression, the need to cheer up, fall asleep instantly, relax, etc. A brochure from the times of the USSR, published by a respected institute in 1970 with a note for internal use in the armed forces (this is not a joke). I don't know if Pavel is familiar with this technique.
 
I have practiced Buteyko with @Steve Freides as my instructor. I started to stop allergies and runny nose and it solved it. Here are a few benefits:
  • Allergies and runny nose gone.
  • I lost about 8 cm waist during 1 month of Buteyko practice, don't know exactly why.
  • I don't need to breathe through my mouth during exercise. My heart rate has gone up to about 180 and kept nose breathing. During a snatch test, nose breathing only.
  • Buteyko has a metric called CP which is very easy to measure and is very useful to diagnose if your breathing is working well or not.
 
serjetto said:
The 20-page brochure briefly describes the psychological burden in such conditions and gives several options for breathing exercises depending on the situation: panic, depression, the need to cheer up, fall asleep instantly, relax, etc.
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I am intrigued. Could you give more information or link to the brochure?

I practiced Buteyko for several months (I have Sleep apnea, control pause around 17, so I hyperventilate). All my life I have been sucking wind in sports.
During those buteyko training days I felt less muscular tension, and more relaxed (I use to be always tense, I don't know why).
I can't tell about anxiety, perhaps I was calmer.
I did notice that I was very comfortable during Kyokushin fights in the dojo, a big improvement for me both breathing and in relaxation, fluid movements, and that's while I had a control pause from 20 to 30 (measured just after waking up).

The weird thing happened when I reached exactly 30. That day my CP dramatically dropped again to 20-17, I couldn't run at the same rhythm while nasal breathing and I got several strange symptoms... I couldn't raise my CP again and it has been a weird year in terms of health and vitality.
After investigating it could be related to something very usual between buteyko students that is called chroniosepsis. Almost nobody talks about this, and it's not scientifically validated, but I know several persons who suffered this.

I don't want to change the post subject, so I’ll end it here, just to say that I would like to feel again as in those buteyko days before the chroniosepsis
 
Maldus said:
I am intrigued. Could you give more information or link to the brochure?

I practiced Buteyko for several months (I have Sleep apnea, control pause around 17, so I hyperventilate). All my life I have been sucking wind in sports.
During those buteyko training days I felt less muscular tension, and more relaxed (I use to be always tense, I don't know why).
I can't tell about anxiety, perhaps I was calmer.
I did notice that I was very comfortable during Kyokushin fights in the dojo, a big improvement for me both breathing and in relaxation, fluid movements, and that's while I had a control pause from 20 to 30 (measured just after waking up).

The weird thing happened when I reached exactly 30. That day my CP dramatically dropped again to 20-17, I couldn't run at the same rhythm while nasal breathing and I got several strange symptoms... I couldn't raise my CP again and it has been a weird year in terms of health and vitality.
After investigating it could be related to something very usual between buteyko students that is called chroniosepsis. Almost nobody talks about this, and it's not scientifically validated, but I know several persons who suffered this.

I don't want to change the post subject, so I’ll end it here, just to say that I would like to feel again as in those buteyko days before the chroniosepsis
Click to expand...
The Buteyko method is based on similar principles, but is more focused on wellness. What I'm talking about is the type of autosuggestion and psychoregulation through breathing. I don’t remember the exact name, I’ll check it later.
 
serjetto said:
The Buteyko method is based on similar principles, but is more focused on wellness. What I'm talking about is the type of autosuggestion and psychoregulation through breathing. I don’t remember the exact name, I’ll check it later.
Click to expand...
Dr Aladar Kogler?
 
I’ve tried a bunch of stuff like win and O2 advantage.

Really for relaxation the basics work best. Exhale longer than you inhale.
Be mindful of your breath. Some people find visualizing triangles or boxes to help with this.
Maybe do a body scan.

You can find out what works best for you. Grab a HR monitor and watch how you can manipulate your HR by just focusing on exhaling longer.

IIRC, Dogen spent all of a paragraph on the actual physical act of mindfulness meditation. It’s simple, just not easy to be consistent. Let it be simple. Or said another way, it’s a practice.
 
Personal view, but I think the Wim hof method is quite a blunt instrument. That said, I do like the ‘feel’ of it, but not sure what it’s actually doing at a deeper level.

You’re going to have different things you may be inclined towards in this area, but I found most benefit working in person with a credible teacher, because there are subtleties and important safety points around breath-work that can be ignored or minimised in some of the neo pop versions on social media.
 
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