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Can I progress faster in S&S

Zwuckel

Zwuckel

Level 2 Valued Member
Hello everyone,

I´m a long time lurker and on-off S&S practicionier. Mostly due to muscle imbalances that seem to worked out finally.

S&S is my only sport atm. Is it possible that I increase the bell faster than one rep every four weeks? I am at 16kg for both 6 times a week nd have no soreness or tiredness. I´d like to use the "rest of my tank" to progress faster.

Requirements would be of course good technique, low to mid soreness not trashed.


Thanks,
Sebastian
 
mikko said:
From the manual pg. 142
Faster, only if you are a seasoned athlete highly in tune with your body.
Click to expand...

This quote is accurately from the book, but I think it applies once you are at a sufficient weight, i.e. 24 kg for men.

Once you get past the first weeks of 15 minutes of practice (without regard for reps/sets), you select a weight that you can swing for 10 x 10. If this is already beyond 16 kg, that is fine.

pg 83 "Avoid the other extreme of setting up permanent residence with baby weights." (I might be quoted on that page as well... ;) )

I would say go ahead and start working in the 24 kg, @Zwuckel, especially for your 2H swings. Also, always happy to give feedback on form, if you want to post a video.
 
Of course Anna C is correct :). I've been two and half years on this program and now I see that I didn't read the manual carefully. I've progressed using the same weight for swings and getups. I don't mind though since I'm still making progress.
 
I'm on my 24kg right now , I have moments where I really feel my body working as a unit, with my hip thrust moving that bell all the way up without using my upperbody. I honestly think I might have to stay on this weight for a couple more months to not only perfect the mechanics but build my volume up. One hand swings provide another challenge and are so much more difficult for me than 2 hands... plus my form isn't completely perfect a lot of the time.

Do you guys recommend staying with a weight for a long period of time before making that weight jump or is it better to give that stimulus of a heavier weight after 100 swings feel easy?
 
I can only comment from my own experience. I was no seasoned athlete when I started S&S, I was in my late 40’s and coming back from a particularly unhealthy chapter. I started with a 16kg and hit ‘timeless’ Simple in around 6 months, I felt solid working through the stages, and kept to the timeless level for perhaps a month, before I dipped back to the 24kg. Looking back I think I progressed too quickly (for me), in so far as my enthusiasm and expectations of myself exceeded my strength gains. I’m still working S&S, but mix in cleans and presses during the week, and my S&S sessions utilise both
28kg and 32kg. I’m more focused now on building strength and resilience, rather than hitting targets.
 
MissileS said:
I'm on my 24kg right now , I have moments where I really feel my body working as a unit, with my hip thrust moving that bell all the way up without using my upperbody. I honestly think I might have to stay on this weight for a couple more months to not only perfect the mechanics but build my volume up. One hand swings provide another challenge and are so much more difficult for me than 2 hands... plus my form isn't completely perfect a lot of the time.

Do you guys recommend staying with a weight for a long period of time before making that weight jump or is it better to give that stimulus of a heavier weight after 100 swings feel easy?
Click to expand...
As long as your practice is focused on being more explosive and more precise, really mastering the weight and being the power over it, you will still get benefit from the 24 kg. If you are instead becoming more cautious with your swings and waiting for the kettlebell to "do the work" or "be the boss", you'll stagnate.
 
Zwuckel said:
Hello everyone,

I´m a long time lurker and on-off S&S practicionier. Mostly due to muscle imbalances that seem to worked out finally.

S&S is my only sport atm. Is it possible that I increase the bell faster than one rep every four weeks? I am at 16kg for both 6 times a week nd have no soreness or tiredness. I´d like to use the "rest of my tank" to progress faster.

Requirements would be of course good technique, low to mid soreness not trashed.


Thanks,
Sebastian
Click to expand...
yes
 
You’ve got answer from the person who is in the book herself. It is impossible to beat her answer especially as someone like myself.

I just want to say, if you progress faster but if you see yourself not doing S&S as consistent as you are doing now in a few weeks or months, than this means that the personalized answer to your question is/was a no.

Consistency beats anything and everything, if you are consistent with a faster progress, sure it is great go a head. If not …
 
Anna C said:
As long as your practice is focused on being more explosive and more precise, really mastering the weight and being the power over it, you will still get benefit from the 24 kg. If you are instead becoming more cautious with your swings and waiting for the kettlebell to "do the work" or "be the boss", you'll stagnate.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the reply, that does make sense, if a heavier kb makes you hesitate with your power then it's not worth it, better to stick with a weight that provides the proper stimulus.
 
Hey, thansk for all your helpful answers. This week got really busy and I have to come back later with a detailed reply. Sorry and thanks a lot!
 
Hey everyone, thanks a lot for your answers and insights. Aprecciate it a lot.

It is really good to know, that I could progress faster at least to the 24 kg. The past week I did 2H 24kg and I felt that my timing got better, the hinge deeper and body tension was naturally more.

Overall it was not good yet. Not enough power at the moment. The TGU24 was okay but still more than being a challenge. I think I will benefit from a few weeks more on the 16kg / 24 for 2H Swings but will progress with the step loading maybe faster than once per four weeks after that.

@Ege I have a labour side job at subways every Saturday. I guess I will be more consitent and be doing a light day afterwards.

@Anna C I guess the "real" weight starts with 24kg for men. The feeling of the swing was way better. With 16kg I couldn´t say if I use my arms or not but with 24 I am dead sure that I am not. I will definitely come back to your offer for a form feedback. I believe I can make it happen next week and will post it in the forum. Thank you so much.

Further observations:

Figured that seven hours of sleep, which was the most this week, is not enough if I am pushing.

Also there was a lot of body changes this week, it is insane. I was standing on my forefoot most of my life. I tried to shift my balance but coudn´t do it for longer periods of time. Now my hip went from anterior tilt into a much more neutral position. The hips became more open. This caused especially my right leg to load the sartorius more and changed my whole walking movement pattern. (Less cowboy, legs closer together, less right leg going inward.) That lead to a different use of my feet. Yesterday that caused, what I believe a Mortons Neuroma on my right pinky toe. I went into a relieving posture and figured out that I am not using the inside of my feet arch enough. (It´s tight)

The change in the hip made a change to my lower back. I got temporary lower back muscle pain due to the adaption. The muscles are not used to it. It´s all fine now.

That lead to a change in upper back posture and tense rhomboids. Gone now. That lead to a different head posture. (Instead of a exaggerated head before body it´s sits now nicely between my shoulders.) Therefore I had a tight neck for a few days.

So the imbalances are still there but made enormous progress. But it is another reason to stay with 16kg a little bit longer.

Regarding technique I made a lot mistakes last year around the same time. I thought the timing was 1-2-3-4 but it actually is 1-2-and-3. (In musical terms). I also need to work on neck position. Overall I believe I will work all the time on technique but these are the mains for the swing atm.

For TGU I figured I need to be more aware of my neck position when looking at the bell. I had a forward head posture and then turning the neck. Figured I have a weak neck.

Used chalk for the first time. I thought I wouldn´t need it for 16kg but still made a huge difference. As a former boulderer I should´ve guessed that.

Further question:

I am 165cm (5´4) and can´t get the handle trough my legs. For 2H swings I am using quite a wide stance. For 1H I turn the thumb outward. Now I´ve read on the forum that @Steve Freides recommended experimenting with inward thumbs. Except for the obvious biomechanical difference is there something I should prefer?
 
Sounds good @Zwuckel. Yes it's interesting how the body alignment and muscle balance changes after doing swings for a while (IF you do them well with full hip extension, which some people unknowingly do not do!) It will all equal out in time. Have you heard the saying about how Americans enter a room with the chest first and Russians with the hips first? You're building some of that :) Make sure you do those stretches after your session. In my opinion and experience (sorry no scientific studies to back this up) this helps turn off the sympathetic nervous system and shift back towards a parasympathetic state which helps your body settle into new alignment. As for neck position, make sure you're reaching the crown of the head for the ceiling at the top of your swing.

Chalk, good! I'm in favor. Especially now as a weightlifter. Weightlifters do not skimp on chalk.

I like thumbs pointed back in the backswing for 1H swings. To some degree it's a matter of preference.
 
I found that I had to take it slow when just introducing the next weight (when my S+ and G+ were 2-4 out of 10 reps), but when they were 6 or 8/10 reps, I found that my impatience didn't cause issues.
 
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