Jamesjones
Level 4 Valued Member
Sound alike a serious way to gain strength do you train in any grappling arts ? Or play a contact sport you'd be Hella strong with that back ground
Kettlebell Can kettlebells replicate a lumberjacks strength
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watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Not anymore.
I was never a wrestler or grappler. I played football (center) in high school and rugby in college. Also did kenpo karate.
I'm 50 now with a fairly high pressure job.
My only competitive sport these days is Olympic weightlifting. I usually compete 1 or 2 times a year.
I've only been doing it 7 years. I do okay for my age and weight class, doing better than average on clean & jerk, but worse than average on snatch. The guys who have been competing longer than me have better technique on the snatch than I do.
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
I can't add much to @watchnerd re this topic secifically. Whenever the topic comes up about "X" job strong, I consider some of the jobs I've had that were really tough physically and an element of awkwardness was always present - manipulating loads away from your center of balance, or repetitively tossing loads of 10-20lbs as far as 10ft, skids of it, progressively moving pallets of paper using only thumbs and index fingers one grab at a time.
Also, as with farm work etc, there is an element of TINA for everything you do and that effects your mindset esp if its a job you've done before.
Also, as with farm work etc, there is an element of TINA for everything you do and that effects your mindset esp if its a job you've done before.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Yeah, the objective isn't to get strong, the objective is to get the job done with as little effort and injury potential as possible, as you're going to have to do the same s**t again the next day.
John Bye
Level 5 Valued Member
Interesting discussion. For me it boils down to two things: specificity and ‘programming’.
Everything is specific, but some things have broader and better carryover to certain activities (which may or may not be of use to the individual). Farmwork, logging, heavy landscaping, etc involve a significant component of handling/manipulating awkward loads in various ways. That sort of skill tends to translate well to where others can see your strength- wrestling, shifting heavy and odd-shaped objects, etc.
When it comes to programming the obvious thing is sheer volume. Less obvious is the wavy (antifragile) nature of the work- would I do 80 x 40 yard body weight carries as part of any training session? Would I do 1,000 5-10 kg digs at a slow pace? There are also circumstances where you might want to drop that piece of timber but if you do you’ve got a serious problem, so you normally find a way.
None of this is to say that one is better or makes one stronger than the other. My personal experience is that kettlebell work has some carryover to heavy manual labour and heavy manual labour has some carryover to kettlebell work, but that either is a humbling experience when you’re trained in the other.
Everything is specific, but some things have broader and better carryover to certain activities (which may or may not be of use to the individual). Farmwork, logging, heavy landscaping, etc involve a significant component of handling/manipulating awkward loads in various ways. That sort of skill tends to translate well to where others can see your strength- wrestling, shifting heavy and odd-shaped objects, etc.
When it comes to programming the obvious thing is sheer volume. Less obvious is the wavy (antifragile) nature of the work- would I do 80 x 40 yard body weight carries as part of any training session? Would I do 1,000 5-10 kg digs at a slow pace? There are also circumstances where you might want to drop that piece of timber but if you do you’ve got a serious problem, so you normally find a way.
None of this is to say that one is better or makes one stronger than the other. My personal experience is that kettlebell work has some carryover to heavy manual labour and heavy manual labour has some carryover to kettlebell work, but that either is a humbling experience when you’re trained in the other.
offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
As you know... Other things to note is that logging is typically done on rough and uneven and sometimes steep ground, with debris around your feet to contend with. Also often done in all kinds of weather and temperatures. Plus saws, axes, draglines, and the like are all dangerous implements. I have known several people with amputations, and some who have died from logging. This environment only adds to the strength it builds in loggers. Putzing around with KB's in a cozy gym doesn't even come close by a long shot.
Darren Best
Level 6 Valued Member
Short answer, no.
Long answer.....
Mind you there is a difference between the old time loggers and today's loggers. Old school used axes and crosscut saws, also known as misery whips. While carrying and using a chainsaw all day is difficult, swinging an axe and being on the end of a misery whip was it's own special kind of suffering.
The terrain a logger works in is it's own challenge, always uneven, cluttered with fallen branches, rocks and trees in various stages of decay and often steep enough you can reach out and touch the ground with your hand while standing up. A logger needs general strength at picking heavy and awkward things up and carrying or dragging them, tremendous rotational strength and endurance. They must be light, fast and nimble on their feet and able to sprint instantly over ground that most people would barely be able to traverse. Even a flatland logger needs strong legs and hours of endurance, but sawyers and hookers for jammer crews are like mountain goats. Working on ground so steep they use jammers instead of skidders to bring the logs to deck. A slow logger usually winds up dead or in the cab of a machine. If you survive your first barber chair or widow maker you either get faster or scared enough to find something safer.
I worked on ranches and farms for the first twenty years of my life, which involved a lot of manual labor. Firewood cutting, picking rock, digging fence post holes, splitting rails and posts, bucking hay and the list goes on. I wrestled for seven years in junior high and high school. I was a logger for a couple years, then into a sawmill pushing logs with a pike pole on the river and a green chain puller. Since those days I have gravitated towards better paying, easier and safer jobs. No weight lifting, kettlebells or training has come close to replicating the strength and endurance I had when I was young.
I once saw a young strong kid, weight lifter and football player came out to work with us one morning bucking hay. Mind you bucking hay is easy compared to logging, he didn't even last an hour. Therein lies the problem, most people train for 15 to 30 minutes, some may push it to an hour. But hard manual labor is all day, often 10 to 16 hour days, then wake up early and do it again, even six or seven days a week when the weather is good.
Sledge hammer, not just on the horizontal, but vertical. Heavy one handed and two handed KB swings, clean and presses, both single and double, sandbag pick ups and carrying, deadlifts, farmers walks, sled work, both pushing and pulling and hill sprints till you see stars will get you the GPP to at least not get ragged on too bad on your first day on a strip. And you will still probably want to quit and find something easier when you wake up for your second day.
Long answer.....
Mind you there is a difference between the old time loggers and today's loggers. Old school used axes and crosscut saws, also known as misery whips. While carrying and using a chainsaw all day is difficult, swinging an axe and being on the end of a misery whip was it's own special kind of suffering.
The terrain a logger works in is it's own challenge, always uneven, cluttered with fallen branches, rocks and trees in various stages of decay and often steep enough you can reach out and touch the ground with your hand while standing up. A logger needs general strength at picking heavy and awkward things up and carrying or dragging them, tremendous rotational strength and endurance. They must be light, fast and nimble on their feet and able to sprint instantly over ground that most people would barely be able to traverse. Even a flatland logger needs strong legs and hours of endurance, but sawyers and hookers for jammer crews are like mountain goats. Working on ground so steep they use jammers instead of skidders to bring the logs to deck. A slow logger usually winds up dead or in the cab of a machine. If you survive your first barber chair or widow maker you either get faster or scared enough to find something safer.
I worked on ranches and farms for the first twenty years of my life, which involved a lot of manual labor. Firewood cutting, picking rock, digging fence post holes, splitting rails and posts, bucking hay and the list goes on. I wrestled for seven years in junior high and high school. I was a logger for a couple years, then into a sawmill pushing logs with a pike pole on the river and a green chain puller. Since those days I have gravitated towards better paying, easier and safer jobs. No weight lifting, kettlebells or training has come close to replicating the strength and endurance I had when I was young.
I once saw a young strong kid, weight lifter and football player came out to work with us one morning bucking hay. Mind you bucking hay is easy compared to logging, he didn't even last an hour. Therein lies the problem, most people train for 15 to 30 minutes, some may push it to an hour. But hard manual labor is all day, often 10 to 16 hour days, then wake up early and do it again, even six or seven days a week when the weather is good.
Sledge hammer, not just on the horizontal, but vertical. Heavy one handed and two handed KB swings, clean and presses, both single and double, sandbag pick ups and carrying, deadlifts, farmers walks, sled work, both pushing and pulling and hill sprints till you see stars will get you the GPP to at least not get ragged on too bad on your first day on a strip. And you will still probably want to quit and find something easier when you wake up for your second day.
Darren Best
Level 6 Valued Member
For reference.
Keep in mind he is wearing spiked boots called corks, spelled caulks, don't ask about why the pronunciation and spelling are different, I have no idea. They give you tremendous traction, but even with those he was having some trouble getting going. This happened in North Idaho which is where I live and shows typical terrain loggers deal with.
Keep in mind he is wearing spiked boots called corks, spelled caulks, don't ask about why the pronunciation and spelling are different, I have no idea. They give you tremendous traction, but even with those he was having some trouble getting going. This happened in North Idaho which is where I live and shows typical terrain loggers deal with.
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watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Yes, all the old-timers I knew had injuries.
The field loggers retired to the lumber mill at some point. Often they had missing digits, or big scars from some injury or another.
I don't mean to gross people out, but once when I was working the log pond, a guy got caught in the hydraulic debarker when it turned on.
There's a reason I decided to go to college, even though the money was amazing for a teenager...
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
The first time I fell down a tree while topping was when a widow maker broke and hit me, dislocating my shoulder.
It was a big redwood and I probably slid 30 feet down the tree before the belt caught.
It only took one more near-miss before I switched to jobs in the mill.
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NormanOsborn
Level 5 Valued Member
Sounds like Logging is a job that requires a specific skill set as well as strength. Not just a case of, "grab the axe and start chopping until the tree falls down".
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
I think the ancient Greeks had it right:
The athletes that competed in the ancient Olympics were, for the most part, rich people.
They had the luxury, time, and money to be able to engage in just enough physical activity to master recreational sports, to eat well enough, and to have access to a training facility.
It was the physical education component that complemented the literary, artistic, musical, mathematical, and philosophical "book learning" (well, scroll learning) to create the ideal of a well-rounded individual.
Nobody was trying to emulate the life of a galley slave.
Similarly, in the modern era, I don't think the objective should be to replicate grueling physical labor, which often ultimately leads to the body breaking down as one gets older.
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watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
That works fine for 8' tall fruit trees.
Felling trees as tall as buildings requires some engineering.
All of the tree felling I do now is either deadwood or storm-damaged trees, both of which can be hazardous if left in place.
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watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
My back acre in Western Washington foothills looks pretty much the same.
offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
Well said...
Molson
Level 5 Valued Member
This sums up the topic for me.
Dayz
Level 8 Valued Member
There's nothing magical or even particularly desirable about it. It's just strength built for a very specific task, and one that really ruins your body no less. There's a huge skill component to the various things involved.
You'll be much stronger in absolute terms following a powerlifting program. That strength will be just as transferable to non Lumber Jack events as lumber jacking.
The best idea might be just to follow a strongman program.
You'll be much stronger in absolute terms following a powerlifting program. That strength will be just as transferable to non Lumber Jack events as lumber jacking.
The best idea might be just to follow a strongman program.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Are you referring to lumberjack / timber sport events or the job of logging?
Strongman events, Highland games, and Lumberjack sporting events are very different from the day-in-day-out nature of logging for a living years at a time.
There isn't a lot of double bit axe throwing in the profession of logging.
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