TimothyGander
Level 5 Valued Member
Yes, with a further recommendation of doing them from a deficit to increase the workload on quads.
Barbell Can you do squats with PTTP?
- Thread starter Pasibrzuch
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watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
This begs the question:
If you want to hit the quads, why do weird unnatural movement patterns that try to turn the DL into a quad exercise?
Why not just do movement patterns that are naturally quad dominant?
e.g. step ups, lunges
silveraw
Level 9 Valued Member
The self imposed limitations set forth in the book? Nothing but a bar and plates and exercises that are available to most people easily. Also the whole 5 reps max thing.
Barbell step ups and lunges would require a steinborn lift.
bluejeff
Level 7 Valued Member
Doesn’t Pavel essentially teach part of that lift when he taught how to shoulder the bar for the side/one arm press? Sure you couldn’t load it as heavy right away but ehh? I get that it’s not an “entry level” lift though.
silveraw
Level 9 Valued Member
Kind of but a reasonably loaded squat with a steinborn is a different animal than a side press
TimothyGander
Level 5 Valued Member
Why is the duck deadlift more "unnatural" than other lifts?
the hansenator
Level 6 Valued Member
Minimalism.
It’s a program that requires nothing more than a barbell and some floor space, and assumes you don’t have a coach to teach you how to clean the bar.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
How often in real life do you lift something with your heels together and your legs bowed out?
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Take the plates off the bar.
Do lunges and step ups holding the plate.
Or a plate in each hand if you they have holes around the edges for gripping.
the hansenator
Level 6 Valued Member
Sure, that’s an option. I think that falls outside of PttP’s narrow focus though.
Keep in mind that it was a different world when the book was released. In the world I grew up in no one knew how to strength train without a gym full of equipment. It was all bodybuilding anyway. Weightlifting coaches were expensive and hard to find. You weren’t able to just run down to K-Mart and buy a squat stand, there wasn’t enough room in the basement anyway. There was no YouTube to teach you different exercises.
Well, that was my experience anyway. That book was a real paradigm shift for me.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
I'm pre-YouTube as well.
But back in olden times lots and lots of folks who had barbells and weight stacks also had bench set ups in their garage.
In my youth, anyone I could think of that had a barbell also had a bench -- although not a full power rack or a squat rack, you could rack and load the bar.
I don't think I knew anyone who had *just* a barbell and a weight stack, but no bench.
(of course, nobody really cared about much working legs -- it was all bench and curls, how much can you bench)
PttP might be a minimalist program, but I wouldn't say that's because people didn't have access to home gym gear back in Ye Olden Days.
the hansenator
Level 6 Valued Member
I found a wobbly bench at a garage sale at one point. It’s a good thing I couldn’t lift much because, looking back, it probably wasn’t very safe.
the hansenator
Level 6 Valued Member
At the apartment we used to live in we barely had room for the barbell. I specifically asked for ground level for that reason. PttP was a good program for that period.
solarbear
Level 6 Valued Member
I kinda think Overhead, Front and Zercher squats would fit the bill.
OTOH I always think of him training soldiers and they don't want DOMS. Hence the reliance on deadlifts which have little to no eccentric.
solarbear
Level 6 Valued Member
Yeah, born in the 70s here and my Dad had a York set that came with a bench. It's how I taught myself to lift.
Pre 70s York used to sell at Sears and in magazines a couple of different sets with just barbell. So if you grew up in the 40s-60s no bench might have been quite common. Clean and Press was the lift of choice.
Funny enough the 300lb York set was pretty common. Makes me laugh when I see power rack packages and they only include 225lb/100kg if weight. We are definitely becoming weak.
bluejeff
Level 7 Valued Member
Granted it seems a little awkward, but... How often do you mimic Olympic lifting in real life? Or how often do you lift something in real life that has it's center of mass evenly distributed so you can keep it directly over your base of support (like a barbell)? Regarding something like a bench press, how often do you push anteriorly while literaly extending the rest of your body the opposite direction? Lifting is full of moves that don't mimic real life, but do make you stronger. Depends on what you want/need out of it. I love handstand pushups but those certainly don't resemble "real life."
HarryBergers
Level 6 Valued Member
Since the prescription is maximum tension over 3-5 seconds, I suspect the ability to generate maximum full body tension, slowly, would only be accomplished by starting in the hole. Zercher would be closest, maybe try with heavy grippers closed during the rep? Hrm..
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Never.
It's a sport, not functional fitness training.
Nor is it trying to be remotely minimalist, in either the programming or gear.
I mean you wear special shoes and use rubber weights, for Pete's sake.
Duck style pulls actually have a purpose in Olympic lifting for certain Chinese-centric styles of lifting, but it wouldn't be anywhere near on my list of 'best ways to work your quads'.
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watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Exactly.
If I really want to hammer my quads while simultaneously minimizing recovery debt (and I don't have access to a belt squat or leg press), I do front cyclist squats on a 20 degree slant board or heels on plates.
I can drop the weight to something ridiculously light like 65 kg and hammer my quads with high reps -- the load is light enough that my torso doesn't give out before my legs will.
And 65 kg is light enough that anyone fit enough to be using a barbell should be able to ugly clean / reverse curl / continental clean it up.
3letterslong
Level 6 Valued Member
I think the only thing I do outside of the gym that uses the same form as lifting is carrying stuff. Building up strength in the duck deadlift would carry over to everything i pick up in the real world, which never looks like a proper deadlift, squat or bent-over-row.
Also, some sports are built on the idea you can build tremendous strength doing things that are entirely unnatural to every day human movment, like gymnastics. A duck deadlift doesn't seem any less beneficial than pelican curls.