Cause&Effect

Harald Motz

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for the last 8 weeks my training is reduced to S&S with 48kg, A+A snatch with 40kg, almost everyday running for around an our at heart rates ranging 130-140bpm. No barbell work, double bell work. My weight, despite the running stays @ 83kg. Yesterday I wanted to see, where my zercher lift is at:
my personal best is 190kg @ 95kg, yesterday it was 180kg @ 83kg.

So far, running did not make me weak, but does positively affect recovery, when I consider that I am doing volume of heavy ballistics daily. There is something about having a proper aerobic system is my first impression after not far away from 3 months of running regularly.
 
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Harald Motz

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@elli : I am back to my old scool stride I developed in some longer accumulated times in my pre-bell years 8 years ago. I land more on the balls of my feet. It's my lovely style. My preferred shoes are the good old sambas. Running is so relaxing, totally natural. Currently I enjoy it on a daily around an hour routine. I have no aches and soreness, I breathe in and out, build my foot-calve-achilles-spring complex, a good stride and posture, some rythm, empty or ramble my mind all as a means for building up a hopefully great aerobic base. Its time well spent to explore ones personal individual MAF. There is something going on with proper lsd.
 

Harald Motz

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Currently my exercise regime is sustained by three pillars:
- simple and sinister
- alactic and aerobic snatches
- aerobic locomotion
A tripod always has a stand by default. "Aerobic system I must" as I am taking a glimpse into it. I feel and measure good outcomes. No need to change anything, currently.
 

Harald Motz

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Harald Motz

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@masa @offwidth @Michael Scott @Shahaf Levin:
thanks a lot guys, much appreciated.

2x44kg and 2x400g

I found lots of Funktionslust (joy of (movement)funtioning) in the double cleans for Alactic work last week. In between repeats I remembered that I have some nice wooden clubs, my father turned me on his lathe in the past. They fit the theme of active recovery perfectly as that is nice flowing and flossing movement. Softstyle to counterpart hardstyle.

A typical Alactic+Aerobic training session can look like this:
06-10-17 3.PNG
I have said it in other thread already: endurance work is damn good. It helps recovery immensely, through building up the aerobic system. "condidtioning" with kettlebells, circuits can "only" get so far.

Cyclic repetitive locomotion with easy breathing is in order for some extended time, e.g. walking, hiking, running, nordic skiing, rowing, cycling, swimming to build up the aerobic system, to recover better. Just tune into your zone, do it regularly....or not.
 
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Harald Motz

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Nothing spectacular in this week. Just further digging A(lactic)+A(erobic) work. For my alactic work I like currently to use either heavy double cleans or the good old heavy single bell snatch in addition I frequently use the rower as it is a great tool for "monitor spotting".
Exemplary from Tuesday 10/10/17:
tuesday 10-10-17.PNG
the blue zone is good in two ways: 1. recovery 2. building up the important aerobic system.

rowing from Thursday 10/12/17:
Thursday 10-12-17.PNG
a little bit of climbing, step aerobics, descending on the concept2.

A+A goes a long way.
 

Antti

More than 2500 posts
Forgive me if you answered this previously, but where did you get your max HR of 185? Is it a result from some test or a simple calculation based on your age or what is it?
 

Harald Motz

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Forgive me if you answered this previously, but where did you get your max HR of 185? Is it a result from some test or a simple calculation based on your age or what is it?
good question Antti. the 185 is a relict, when I did some 10min running tests and 10min SSST with the 24k after completing a few A+A protocols for Al. 185 was my max then, a year ago.

Good reminder to get an update.
 

The Nail

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I have said it in other thread already: endurance work is damn good. It helps recovery immensely, through building up the aerobic system. "condidtioning" with kettlebells, circuits can "only" get so far.

Cyclic repetitive locomotion with easy breathing is in order for some extended time, e.g. walking, hiking, running, nordic skiing, rowing, cycling, swimming to build up the aerobic system, to recover better. Just tune into your zone, do it regularly....or not.
I'm curious to see how A+A principles would work for the sport of 3 lift raw powerlifting. When I was powerlifting in the past, I tried to mix intense cardio training into my lifting which did not work. My theory is the frequent easy-breathing locomotion work + 2 days a week of S&S would work wonderfully to help recovery from the big 3 barbell lifts. Maybe after my SFG1 in April 2018 I'll pick up the barbells again...
 

Harald Motz

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I'm curious to see how A+A principles would work for the sport of 3 lift raw powerlifting.
The habits A+A guidelines promote would have carry over, as one A+A - aspect is recovery. Recovery promotes strength and power.
When I was powerlifting in the past, I tried to mix intense cardio training into my lifting which did not work.
I think that is quite normal as there are many proponents of "endurance work" makes you weak. There are paradigms and the stories built around sound plausible.
I think if one is really after big numbers in the three one needs no excess endurance work (diminishing returns), just slight jogging or maybe a brisk walk dependant on a few thing for around half an hour would do very good things to recovery after strength session.
This is what I am experiencing every time after some heavy volume Alactic work. The Aerobic afterwards calms the heart really down, As after A the A brings my hr really near "resting hr". This alone is reason enough to stick with it.

My theory is the frequent easy-breathing locomotion work + 2 days a week of S&S would work wonderfully to help recovery from the big 3 barbell lifts.
Yes, no doubt.
 

Antti

More than 2500 posts
@The Nail & @Harald Motz , interesting discussion in the last two posts.

I've grown to really like powerlifting lately and I think it may be the sport for me. I'm also in need of some cardio work. I won't run, but walking is a good option and I feel it enhance my recovery, especially with the legs. When I was doing mostly KB lifting I really liked 50-100 hundred one arm swings with a 32kg kettlebell. That didn't really take a lot away from me but always gave me energy for the day. I wonder how that approach would work now. I also consider skiing as the winter and the season comes. That should be good for my joints and I'd get to do it outdoors in the forest.

Also, I've tried to think how well the powerlifts and suitable accessory work, especially squats, in themselves manage to qualify as cardio work. I know I get winded doing them. Is it crazy talk to think of strapping a heart rate monitor on me and doing sets of five back squats with a light barbell for 10-20 minutes on the minute?
 

The Nail

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Also, I've tried to think how well the powerlifts and suitable accessory work, especially squats, in themselves manage to qualify as cardio work. I know I get winded doing them. Is it crazy talk to think of strapping a heart rate monitor on me and doing sets of five back squats with a light barbell for 10-20 minutes on the minute?
Utilizing the powerlifts as cardio work is not optimal. There is a lot going on with the body during those heavy sets of barbell moves, and a lot of tension to maintain with the loads in order to stay safe. Yes, they leave you winded but that does not make them a good cardio move.
 

Antti

More than 2500 posts
Utilizing the powerlifts as cardio work is not optimal. There is a lot going on with the body during those heavy sets of barbell moves, and a lot of tension to maintain with the loads in order to stay safe. Yes, they leave you winded but that does not make them a good cardio move.
I can understand that they're not optimal. However, they are something that I enjoy and something I do in some extent in any case. I suppose I'm wondering how much of a cardio benefit I'm already getting from them, and how I should plan my other cardio work, like what the other cardio should be like and how to hit a good effect with the least amount of work.
 

Harald Motz

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I won't run, but walking is a good option and I feel it enhance my recovery, especially with the legs.
you don't need to run, just walk when you can do it after lifting would be great. Getting into a habit. Monitoring with hr device when it has gps is a great way to watch improvement: same hr, longer distance, or same distance lower hr, or longer distance with less hr. Managing on weekends some longer hikes with family, friends, or just alone would make more effects.

I think with just speed walking I could get into a good range, where I am in an aerobic state using good amount of fat in relation to carbohydrates. I have actually accumulated a bit over 10 months of endurance work (6months last year, over 4 months this year). My MAF without any adjustment is 140. Roughly I stay with running in a 125-135, with rowing 120-130 for over 80% of my endurance work. It deems me that even 110-120 is a great realm. It takes some time for the body to get into the fat mode maybe 20-30min.
I find it interesting, how it triggers hunger/appetite, as after slow endurance I definitely have not the urge to replenish calories but on the other hand I can eat, but seem to need not that much. Slow endurance work has so many benefits on fat metabolism , building mitochondria, relaxes the heart, building capillaries, recovery....

Also, I've tried to think how well the powerlifts and suitable accessory work, especially squats, in themselves manage to qualify as cardio work. I know I get winded doing them.
Somewhere we have a thread on the forum about the topic. When I remember correctly Kenneth Jay was mentioned in this context. Eventually I got his book Cardio Code. His Viking Warrior Conditioning was/is a protocol to get cardio benefits with using high speed relatively light single bell snatching to elicit cardiovascular adaptation when I got it right big time due to changes on the heart muscle.

In a nutshell he sais : High heart rates are not a predictor of good cardiovascular exercise for eliciting the adaptations one wants to improve ("then I could scare you to better fitness", he jokes)

The thing when doing for examples squats, even light ones is the (intraabdominal) tension and in the working muscles. Because of this (relatively) long tension blood flow is restricted, muscles need the oxygen, but the blood can not delivered very good, heart rate and blood pressure rising very fast very high. Because the heart beats hard and heavy through restricted veins heart wall gets high hypertrophy stimulus, which can make the diameter of the chamber smaller, actually. In addition of the restricted blood flow not very much blood goes back to the heart, to expand the chambers.

Thick heart walls alone would be a pathological state, as chronical high blood pressure patients show. To have a healthy heart the chambers have to be stretched, one has to breathe easily, one has to move with a fast tense relax cycle and this is "only" by doing the traditional stuff: walk, jog, bike, ski, row, swim.

Jay makes his VWC not obsolete, but came through his research to the conclusion that even light and fast snatches are not optimal for developing "endurance", not to say any other circuits, and most probably not with the use of external weights.
 
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