all posts post new thread

Old Forum Clean and Press...Alactic conditioning?

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)

Telegramsam

Level 2 Valued Member
Just musing/creating debate here, how 'good' are cleans and presses (particularly doubles) for low reps 1-5 done for many sets for conditioning in general, compared to swings? Do they fit the alactic conditioning aimed for at SF?
 
From what little I know on this subject, I'd say it's not a good fit. The clean, perhaps, since it's ballistic, but not the press. Perhaps if the c&p effort was kept short? You'd have to keep the reps to triples and under, I'd think.

I hope Al, Mike, or Pavel will register their opinion on this one.

-S-
 
Geoffrey, I'm guessing here, but my guess is that they do not fit in with alactic training, they're just strength training after you've already done your explosive alactic work.

-S-
 
Thanks Steve, makes sense. Certainly feels quite different in my body and in how in how much rest I need between "sets"
 
I'll do my best to answer :)

Before I begin, the term alactic training is another name for targeting the Creatine Phosphate system ( think high horsepower system ). The idea that you can perform a conditioning session without lactic acid in the blood is actually false, it is always present. Lactic acid does increase when performing anaerobic activity but it is VERY dependent on intensity and duration. When we use this term, we are trying to repeat an explosive performance over and over without too much accumulation of lactic acid. In a nutshell, we don't want to chase the burn

When we refer to alactic training, we are generally referring to a conditioning protocol that is near max/max effort for a short period. Whether you are training power or capacity, you need to use exercises that are fast in nature and are systemic. Exercises like sprinting, battling rope slams, swings and bike sprints are all decent choices when attempting to design an alactic training template. If you decide to use clean and presses in this fashion, it would not work too well. You would be running into localized muscular fatigue, potential CNS burnout, and determining the appropriate load would be very tough. You COULD, use this style for hypertrophy, density training and armor building but there are better choices for alactic work.

Did that make any sense?
 
Mike - 100% perfect sense, thanks. You know, I was thinking to myself last night that this was a bit of a daft Q because, unless I am resting LONG between sets, it will be increasingly glycolitic in nature. A GTG type programming would probably not be too far off the ideal 'glycolitic minimisation' protocol.

In fact, when one looks at what is the likely theory of hypertrophy (ATP depletion & lactic build-up) I would imagine that it is not going to happen to any great degree unless one is building lactic up.

But for 15-20 minutes, 3 x per week, pushing myself a little and not trashing myself, I think I will be fine. I am looking forward to the carry-over conditioning-wise. I TRY to run/jog for fun/variety/heart health for up to 50 mins a once a week. I am dropping that for a bit (time probs) but will be interested to see where I can pick back up. Also hoping the heavy (for me) cleans will hit my hams. Maybe not as much as swings, but enough.

Thank-you to the other contributors here, too.
 
For general conditioning, the double KB clean and jerk (not clean and press) would be a good option since it targets a lot of muscle mass in a ballistic movement. You just need to figure out the best reps. It takes me about 5 seconds to do a rep, so sets of 3-4 reps works for me as a starting point. Then I consider my heart rate and local muscular fatigue. Is my heart rate spiking too high? Has my breathing calmed between sets? And is there any local fatigue where, for example, my shoulders are "burning". We don't want the "burn" so if your shoulders are burning, even if you can pass the talk test, its not working for you. Each exercise is different. A twenty second set of swings is very different from 20 seconds of sprinting.

So yes, sets of 3-5 reps of the double KB clean and jerk with a moderate weight and enough rest to pass the talk test could work.
 
Sam, you can develop local endurance in your pressing muscles in this manner (with carefully planned rest intervals) but it would not do much for your general endurance.

To do that you need to use explosive lower body exercises like swings, jumps up hill, springs, etc.
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom