Kettlebell Coaching detrained gen pop

[conor78]

I’ve been running a kettlebell fundamentals course for males. The guys have all sporting backgrounds but in their 30’s generally did circuit/Hit and or jogging.
The focus is very much on technique and teaching SF principles and not smoking them. They are all enjoying it and making good progress. They are getting stronger. Some obs at this stage:
-Overhead, hip mobility is a real issue for all of them. Mind the gap is very useful here.
-Vertical pressing strength is very limited. -Horizontal pressing is generally better.
-Squat patterns comes easier than the hinge.
-The SF manual and regression drills are an excellent resource for teaching the swing. The swing is tricky and needs reps.
- Teaching feed forward tension hardstyle breathing is important to ensure safety.-
-Farmers walks and batwings help posture.
- All the guys enjoy the way that prying goblets and halos make them feel.
Mentally they feel better..

When you spend a long time in a system you take for granted how much impact it can make.. strength has a greater purpose.. indeed…

What obs have you made when dealing with detrained gen pop?

 

[Steve W.]

What obs have you made when dealing with detrained gen pop?

For a really detrained, or I guess more "untrained" general population (little sports or exercise background), I've found it's important to progress load and volume very, very slowly.

If I'm coming off a layoff in my own training, I can generally tolerate anything I am capable of doing in my detrained state. I might be weak, lack stamina, and get DOMS, but I'm not going to hurt myself. However, people with no real training history are much, much, more susceptible to all kinds of acute and overuse injuries. Things that you (a generic "you," not necessarily you) might not think of as risky or in a risky dose, can easily hurt people who are starting from scratch. And nothing is going to discourage someone from continuing to train more than getting injured. In contrast, they often like getting DOMS because it feels like they did something, although it does discourage some.

So you have to be cautious, but also give them enough to DO (with low skill/low risk drills) so they feel like they're actually training and not just getting ready to train, even if they're not ready for a real progressive program of basic drills (swings, cleans, snatches, squats, presses, pullups, etc.). It sounds like you already have a good handle on this, and with a population that is detrained but has a sporting/training background, I think you have a little more leeway.

 

[Steve Freides]

What obs have you made when dealing with detrained gen pop?

I posted what I do in a thread here a few weeks ago - don't recall which one, might have been instructors only.

In a nutshell, I work on hip hinge using a stick touching the three points on the back, then kettlebell deadlift, then kettlebell swing. In there I teach goblet squat as a warmup, and getup beginning with "lay on the floor on your back and get up until you're standing" and we progress from there. With kettlebell swings, we aim for Timeless Simple then move into AXE. Other things as students are interested, e.g., some want to press a kettlebell overhead or deadlift a barbell, so we do those things, too.

-S-

 

[Antti]

Most people really play down their capabilities. Or maybe they don't like giving that much effort.

I often see a much better hip hinge than a squat. Interesting to have the opposite experience to @conor78 .

I often see issues with thoracic mobility. Sure, not everyone must be able to press smoothly behind the neck, but still. And it gets worse with age and we get many ills from it.

Proper breathing and bracing technique is rare.

People can live happy and fulfilling lives in many kinds of shape.

 

[John K]

-Overhead, hip mobility is a real issue for all of them. Mind the gap is very useful here.

I've seen men have more overhead issues than women, but I haven't seen much issues with hip mobility. Can you describe what you're seeing for that?

-Vertical pressing strength is very limited. -Horizontal pressing is generally better.

I'd agree with the horizontal pressing with what I'd call "formerly athletic males." With nonathletic males and females, I don't.

-Squat patterns comes easier than the hinge.

Interesting observation. I've seen the opposite with most people, except for a few folks that are just proportioned to squat.

-The SF manual and regression drills are an excellent resource for teaching the swing. The swing is tricky and needs reps.

Agreed! The SF manual is gold for helping people learn to swing. I've had quite a few clients that become proficient deadlifters rather quickly but the swing eludes them.

- Teaching feed forward tension hardstyle breathing is important to ensure safety.-

Is this the same as bracing? Some folks definitely pick that up quicker than others, but it is definitely something I coach/cue.

-Farmers walks and batwings help posture.

I find more return using something like a bench row for most folks I've worked with. I can't say I've ever used batwings with a client.

What obs have you made when dealing with detrained gen pop?

I've found working in couplets and triplets to be a great use of time. Something like a squat - push - pull, or squat - pull + push - pull. I find 2-3 couplets work nicely.

I find that making people rest sufficiently can be frustrating for both them (who want to go go go) and for me (who doesn't like just standing around talking).

I've found that some people just don't want to push hard, and if you make them push hard they quit.

I've found if a client notices improvement in their life from lifting they will stick with you forever.

Machines have their place, particularly with rehab clients. (Cleared by a doc for limited exercise.)

TRX rows are a great way to introduce how to properly row and how to create total body tightness.

Most men that ask a question are more interested in telling you the answer than in listening to your answer.

Some people find a lot of empowerment in working with barbells. Some people really don't care what they're doing.

Ask what clients are enjoying/hating. Use the "enjoy" bits more for retention, but mix in the "hates" as good medicine.

The Prowler Flu is real and will cost you clients. And it really does take 15-30s to set in.

I'm sure there's more.

 

[Steve Freides]

The Prowler Flu is real

Explain? Prowler is a sled pull/push, yes? Thx.

-S-

 

[John K]

Explain? Prowler is a sled pull/push, yes? Thx.

-S-

The Prowler is a piece of equipment from EliteFTS, and yes, it is essentially a sled push with various types/levels of handles. The Prowler Flu ... basically you feel like you have the flu, and it comes from being a little too aggressive in pushing the prowler - too hard, too fast, too little rest, etc. - but you normally don't feel that bad during/when you stop, but about 30s after you finish it hits you like a ton of bricks and you feel quite sick. Vomiting is common.

I want to be clear that using the Prowler doesn't give you the flu ... but if you push it too hard/too heavy/too many repeats you very quickly "catch the flu." I would liken it to CrossFit's Pukey the Clown "back in the day."

Prowler® 2

Starting Strength actually has a decent article about programming/using the Prowler for more things than just getting sick.

Death by Prowler | Matt Reynolds

"The Prowler is simply the best tool ever invented for conditioning. It’s simple. It’s cheap. It’s completely concentric, leads to little increased fatigue, doesn’t contribute to systemic inflammation, and yet it’s still harder than anything else."

startingstrength.com