Comments on this Program

Discussion in 'Kettlebell' started by gorillainagi, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. gorillainagi

    gorillainagi Double-Digit Post Count

    I wanted to create a program for someone who had only a pair of same size bells at their disposal. Your comments would be welcome.

    Five rounds: Double Clean and Press—>Double Front Squat—>Pull-ups

    You can scale the program to your ability or goals by doing 5 rounds of 1-5 reps per round on the double clean/press/squat. You might start with five singles, and then do 2-1-1-1-1, then 2-2-1-1-1, 2-2-2-1-1, and so on. Do the same number of pull ups as reps you did on the clean/press/squat. Perform the DCP/DFSQ/Pullups unbroken. Work toward five rounds of five reps. Rest between rounds as necessary, but get on with it.

    100 snatches (50/50)

    Use the same size bell for the snatches and get-ups as you did for the clean/press/squat. Try to do the snatches in no more than five rounds, and hit it hard.

    10 Turkish Get Ups (5/5)

    Use the same size bell for the snatches and get-ups as you did for the clean/press/squat. To increase difficulty, string Turkish Get Ups together by doing them in reverse and using a snatch to transition from one hand to the other (snatch—>”get down”—>”get up”—>finish snatch, switch hands, repeat).

    Farmers walk finisher

    Grab one or two bells and walk to your satisfaction.

    I recommend starting this program with relatively light weight and then adjust as you feel appropriate.
  2. Mark Limbaga

    Mark Limbaga Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum Certified Instructor

    a few questions

    1.what is your goal?
    2. how many times can you press your pair of bells? snatch them? clean them?
  3. gorillainagi

    gorillainagi Double-Digit Post Count

    Goal is general strength and conditioning. I’m working towards sinister and passing the SFG snatch test.

    I have pairs of 16, 20, 24, 28 and 32kg to work with. I can clean and press a pair of 28kg. I snatched 24kgx100 in 8:25 on my first try.

    I would run this program maybe three times a week and throw in a day of simple and sinister swings and get ups now and again.

    During the winter, my garage is too cold for training, so I have to take a pair of kettlebells to my gym every trip. I’m trying to create a program that I can make progress with only one pair of bells until winter breaks.
  4. CraigAlexanderWigham

    CraigAlexanderWigham Double-Digit Post Count

  5. gorillainagi

    gorillainagi Double-Digit Post Count

  6. CraigAlexanderWigham

    CraigAlexanderWigham Double-Digit Post Count

    I just wanted to assist quickly, I have time to elaborate now.
    The first two links advise you to follow S&S till Simple (my understanding from your post is that you have achieved this). One should then achieve RoP before any double bell work (most likely due to learning to Clean & Press with one bell is much safer). Serious Endurance and Waving the Volume with some minor moderation would work very well with heavy Snatches and/or Swings both of which will aid you with your goals.

    Dry Fighting Weight and Total Tension are both double bell programs that have already been tried and tested. I posted those due to your first sentence, I thought you needed a double bell program for a friend, that was my mistake. I do not believe double bell work will aid you in your mentioned goals, in fact the Cleans and Pull-Ups may hinder your Swings & Snatches, the only way to know for sure though is to test the program yourself. I would add though that Snatches would be best to do when fresh not fatigued from 5 rounds, if you Clean with each Press you won't need Pull-Up's and Press' need volume, maybe start with sets of 3.

    I think you would progress much faster and safer with a much simpler program, for example 2-3 S&S sessions and 2-3 Snatch sessions with light SFG1 drills as a warm-up on Snatch days.
  7. Bill Been

    Bill Been Strong Member of the Forum

    You don't have to get to Sinister or to the ROP standards before you start training seriously, for which double bells are the minimum entry parameter in my opinion. There's no overcoming the fact that you can press 2x28s, which gives your body a 123lb training stress, whereas pressing a Beast nets you 106. So kudos to you on your choice to move more weight.

    Now...your program. I generally have less patience than most for self-inflicted suboptimal programming as a way to deal with suboptimal conditions. Meaning: I think you're unnecessarily limiting yourself by choosing 1 bell size and trying to do a variety of movements with them. Your weakest expercise will ALWAYS be the in the driver's seat for bell selection when you do that, driving the other movements into inappropriate rep ranges or less powerful variants with disadvantaged leverage or positioning.

    But if you insist on not storing your bells indoors, bundling up and carrying them out to the garage, here's what I would do:

    I would pick one Big Bang movement: Clean & Press or Front Squat, and I would work Geoff Neupert's "Kettlebell Strong!" program, which I think is still available through Chris Lopez. It requires only 1 set of bells, it's heavy, and it is not diluted by the presence of a conditioning element. Your hard-earned conditioning will still be there when you get done, trust me. I lost a whopping 5 seconds off my snatch test and gained the ability to do it with a size bigger than my test bell. This was after 8 weeks of ZERO conditioning.
    conor78, Shawn90, Tirofijo and 6 others like this.
  8. Kettlebelephant

    Kettlebelephant Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum

    Oscar likes this.
  9. MikeTheBear

    MikeTheBear Strong Member of the Forum

    Agreed. There are no prerequisites.

    I once again invoke The Bear's No. 1 Rule for Creating the Best Program: Will the program be done consistently? If yes, then it is an excellent program. Consistency trumps program design.

    @gorillainagi Your program is basically a complex. I am a fan of complexes. Complexes do have limitations. As @Bill Been said, your weakest exercise will determine the weight used. So, your press will go up but your squat will likely not get stronger. But the complex will build some conditioning. Also, nothing says you can't do more reps on the squat to build some endurance in your legs. But if you're okay with that and you will do this program consistently, then you have created the best program for your needs. See Bear's No. 1 Rule for Creating the Best Program.
  10. Oscar

    Oscar Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum

    @Kettlebelephant thanks for sharing that link. Extremely useful.

    @Bill Been thanks for the thorough post included in that thread about achieving your cert, also very useful. I have bookmarked it for when I go for my cert.
  11. Mark Limbaga

    Mark Limbaga Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum Certified Instructor

    Personally, I like the ONE program but find it too aggressive even with the modified version so I will only do it for a short period of time..

    My recommendation twice a week strong and twice a week s and s
  12. BrianCF

    BrianCF Triple-Digit Post Count

    I love your choice of exercises. All my favorites. And going to the gym, no one wants to drag more than 2 kettlebells in.

    Doing a complex before snatching will not provide you with the best benefits for training your snatch. You'll become fatigued and a good chance to get injured.

    My other issue is you're trying to reach 2 goals at the same time.

    Here's what I would do.
    Bring the 2 kettlebells to the gym, 3 days a week.
    Do your complex/pullups routine. Aim for 25-50 reps, I would clean once and do the press reps or do it as a chain, clean press squat, repeat the sequence.
    Squats in the rack really fry the back of your shoulders.

    Throw in 10 sets x 5-10 double swings. You'll feel that in the traps to substitute for the carries.

    10 getups each side, since I'm assuming the weight you are using is less than weight you use to train for sinister. This won't help as much with the strength, but with the fluidity of the movement

    Other 2-3 days,
    Snatches 100-200 preferably 2x because you want to protect your hands as well as recover.

    Throw in some carries if you want to work the grip after snatching.
    Steve Freides likes this.
  13. gorillainagi

    gorillainagi Double-Digit Post Count

    This is very helpful. Thank you.

    I have noticed my snatch sets (10/10) are a bit of labor on the last two.

    When I mentioned the two goals, I don't mean I am actively pursuing them simultaneously. I think a better way to express myself would have been to say "I am building strength and conditioning generally, and I have my eye on Sinister and the snatch test." When and if I decide to specifically pursue one or the other, I will program for accomplishing that goal. I wouldn't pursue both simultaneously, and if I chase either I will train specifically for that goal.

    Right now, I am just trying to get stronger and fitter with the situation I have, which is training in a small spot among a bunch of suburban gerbils bouncing on ellipticals who think I am crazy. They are almost all weak and doing nothing to get stronger, so a bearded, tattooed, kettlebell swinging man frankly scares them. It would make me laugh if it weren't so sad.

    Logistics confines me to taking two bells at a time, or one big one. Since I'm not trying to get Sinister right now, I don't want to take the one bell appropriate for my present progress there (36kg) and limit myself to swings and TGU. I'd rather work a double kettlebell plan that I can do with one pair that is generally going to make me stronger and fitter until the weather breaks and I can return to my personal lair where I have all the kettlebells I need for any program I pick.

    I get what you're saying about using the double cleans and keeping my groove on with the TGU even if I'm working with a lighter bell than I would train for sinister. I think your suggestions make a lot of sense, and I might just run up to the gerbil cage now and try this plan.
  14. Frank_IT

    Frank_IT Strong Member of the Forum

    Without criticizing your program and with very, very little experience by my side (most of which is empirical): what's that it aimed for? Because it looks like A LOT of work, very hard to recover from (especially the 100 snatches with the suggestion of hitting them hard) and targeted to many aspects.

    1st part: I like it, if I could do it without the "get on with it". I'd treat it with a pure strength approach: rest between 5 and 10 minutes, depending on the load and general feeling, take it easy and work those muscles for strength. It looks like a complex that could yeld good results.

    2nd part: I don't like it. If I have to snatch, I follow Mr. Ciampa A+A principle. To me personally, there is no better way (for training) to snatch a kettlebell inside the hardstyle method.

    3rd part: for TGUs, as much as I like to maximize them, I would use them as a "link-everything-together" tool, so light bell, ten repetitions total like you said, taking your time and doing them really slow, owning the movment, stretching the muscles and controlling the weight. Again, it's my personal take on the get up, which I don't like to use for strength training, while I think it's phenomenal to get someone to know his body and his shoulders especially.

    Again, I'm doubting this is a sustainable program, how long is it supposed to last? Four to eight weeks?
    What would it be aimed at? Maximal strength? Strength endurance? Metabolic conditioning?

    EDIT: I read the whole tread after I finished writing this. My bad. From here on, here are my suggestions for you.

    For what you said (GPP and the snatch test), I don't think what you put out would be beneficial. The snatch test is one kind of animal, from what I gathered by those who have passed it, either for certifications or for personal purposes, it needs specific training (highlited in many articles on this website).
    GPP is too vast of an argument and it differs from person to person. From what you said, the first part of your training (the complex) done with a 5RM weight and maybe following a more structured path (which I'm sure you'll come up with) is pretty good! Maybe throw 3 days of 100, moderatly light swings in sets of 5 outside of the complex, the goal should be to not stress your systems much, because they will get worked enough by the grinds.
    I won't talk much about Sinister, my opinion on it greatly differs from most on this Forum, all I'll say is that, to me, Sinister is not a reasonable goal for many (the majority) of the individuals, and therefore shouldn't be pursued outside of a very few people (and I'm not talking about you in particular)!

    I wrote this post on and off in a long period of time, sorry for any mistakes or if it sounds cocky! None of the two were intentional! :)
    gorillainagi likes this.

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