Barbell Critique my deadlift progression: 70-85% range

[dk]

Hey all,

----BACKGROUND----
It's been quite a few years since I've posted on this forum so allow me to "re-introduce myself". I'm M32/165lbs/10%BF (DXA when I weighed ~175lbs, less now probably). I've been lifting since ~2012 after a motorcycle wreck resulted in the amputation of my left leg below the knee. I don't have any medical restrictions per se though the prosthetic does somewhat limit the ROM in my knee. I've previously done PTTP around ~2013-2016 and greatly enjoyed it.

My goal is now, as before, to get stronger. Specifically, let's talk about the deadlift. My best-ever deadlift was 435lbs about 1.5 years ago. I weighed ~175lbs at the time. Since then I've moved states and changed jobs and all this fuss/stress has had me doing more of a maintenance/bodybuilding style of lifting. I've also lost ~10lbs or so. I'm quite lean and very happy with how I look but would definitely like to get back into training for strength. I'd say that my current 1RM is probably somewhere around 400lbs (last week failed at 405 though was having an off week in general, previous week did 385x3, did 405x2 successfully ~2 months ago).

----MAIN POST----
My main issue is programming my intensity. I believe that I tend to lift too heavy, too often. My previous deadlift plan had me deadlifting once per week. I would start each "cycle" at ~315lbs and add 10lbs each week until it gets too hard then try for a new 1RM every ~10-12 weeks or so. Needless to say, I would usually fail.

Having had the time to reflect and do more research, I realize that this strategy was quite sub-optimal. It was simply too tiring. I had long outgrown this linear type progression. So, I did a lot of research and set out to devise a new deadlift scheme that has me lifting mostly in the 70-85% intensity range, which seems to be much more desireable. This is based off of the Wendler 5/3/1 program and the "Simple Deadlift" program I found at T-Nation (The Simple Deadlift Program | T Nation).

Essentially, it would work as follows:

Week 1: 70% (5x5)
Week 2: 75% (5x3)
Week 3: 80% (5x1)
Week 4: Deload ~65%(5x5)
Week 5: 75% (5x5)
Week 6: 80% (5x3)
Week 7: 85% (5x1)
Week 8: Deload ~65% (5x5)
Week 9: 80% (4x5)
Week 10: 85% (4x3)
Week 11: 90% (4x1)
Week 12: Deload ~65% (5x5)
Week 13: 85% (3x5)
Week 14: 90% (3x3)
Week 15: 95% (3x1)
Week 16: Deload ~65% (5x5)
Week 17: Try for new max or reset if don't feel like it

In this way, only ~6% of the total reps are >90% intensity.

So...the questions are:

1) What do you all think of this progression?

2) How would you suggest that I adapt this progression to other lifts? Specifically, I am thinking of doing something similar for weighted pull-ups/dips and overhead press, floor press but am worried about the intensity being too low since these are not nearly as taxing as deadlifts.

3) What do you think about this in the context of my overall training program? The program is essentially one compound movement each day (DB floor press, deadlifts, pull-ups/chin-ups, dips, leg press, DB overhead press) and 1-2 assistance exercises done in a more bodybuilding fashion with limited rest. No assistance work on the deadlift and pull-up days. I do ~40 min cardio every day.

Thanks,
Dan

 

[apa]

Hey, I like it. But I am not qualified to answer your questions.

Just to clarify: when you write (5x1) and (5x3) do you mean (sets/reps) or (reps/set)?

 

[Anna C]

How many times per week would you deadlift on this plan?

 

[dk]

Thanks for your replies.

apa, sorry for being unclear. Yes, it is SETxREPS. SO 5x1 would be 5 sets of 1 rep or 5x3 would be 5 sets of 3 reps, for example.

Anna, I would be deadlifting ONCE per week.

 

[Alexander Halford]

My opinion - drop the T-Nation program. It's for the bored professionals. Wendler's program is good and proven to deliver results, but for that much certain time period, because it is linear with deloading. I would take Reload program by @Fabio Zonin and Pavel, or Fabio's "Simple strength for difficult times" and having a barbell DL at the pull day + other whatever you choose to do. The last especially simply and effectively puts on the paper how to do wave loading, I think. Both are simple and wise enough for a great progress.

 

[william bad butt]

I like your plan. I tweaked it a bit because I think your jumps per week are too small. This is what I would do if it was me. Somethi g like this.

Week 1: 60% (3x6)
Week 2: 70% (3x5)
Week 3: 80% (3x4)
Week 4: Deload 50%(5x1)
Week 5: 65% (3x6)
Week 6: 75% (3x5)
Week 7: 85% (3x3)
Week 8: Deload 50% (5x1)
Week 9: 70% (3x5)
Week 10: 80% (3x4)
Week 11: 90% (3x2)
Week 12: Deload 50% (5x1)
Week 13: 75% (4x4)
Week 14: 85% (3x3)
Week 15: 95% (2x1)
Week 16: Deload 50% (5x1)
Week 17: Do singles up to 85%
Week 18: Singles: 85%, 92.5%, 97.5%, 100+%

Another day per week. Do another lower body assistance but not a deadlift. Maybe swings. Maybe barbell squats. Maybe 1 leg deadlifts. Depends on your equipment.

 

[dk]

Thanks for the replies.

Alex: I didn't quite understand your post but I don't think the Simple Strength for Difficult Times or Reload are not quite what I'm looking for. They both look like 8 week programs which, in my experience, are a bit too brutal for my body in terms of deadlifting. I do agree that T-Nation is usually a joke but this particular plan didn't look too bad to me

William: Interesting tweak. I like it overall. Two questions: 1) Your program has quite a bit less volume (~175 total reps) vs the original (~257 total reps). Is that intentional? 2) Any reason you think the deload has to be so light?

Also very interested in how this kind of cycle would be modified for lifts that are much lighter. For example, my max one-sided DB press is ~60lbs right arm, ~50lbs left. A 5% step is only 2.5lbs for the left arm. Does the cycle need to be ~16 weeks? Is a deload week really necessary here?

 

[Anna C]

Thanks for clarifying.

I think if you want to get better at something, you have to do it more than once per week.

The only way around that is if you do some other variation once or twice per week in addition to that (RDL, snatch-grip DL, power cleans, heavy kettlebell swings) and/or you're doing some sort of heavily loaded squats more than twice per week, especially low bar back squat.

Is there any particular reason to not deadlift lift more than once per week? If you have the volume dialed in to be the right amount of stress, it should be easy to optimize to a stress that will stimulate a strength increase and not drive you into the ground.

 

[william bad butt]

I hesitated commenting on your deadlifts when you have so much other training going on. I typically dont comment when somebody has such a complicated program or when chasing so many goals at once. One has to take everything together, everything must work together. So, concerning the deadlifts, and the deadlifts only, I would not run before your deadlifts. I would not run the day before you deadlift. And when the weights start getting g 85%, I would not run 2 days before you deadlift. This, of course, comes at a detriment to your running goal. You may not think that the running impacts your deadlift, but it does. The Deload is key because it allows you to take a physical and mental break. It also allows you to dial in your technical form, especially when the weights get heavy. You can do more if you want (more weight and more reps), I recommend adding more sets vs reps. You mentioned that you lift too heavy and you "fail" heavy lifts often, that concerned me. That's why I recommend keeping g the Deload light.

In terms of the total reps... I tend to lean towards under training vs overtraining in this lift. You may respond differently. I also do a lot of heavy back squats that help build my deadlift (and you will not be). I find the deadlift to be a mental lift. And I dont like to push it too much. I like perfect practice. NEVER FAIL (even on your max). And I also like resetting after each rep.

If you want more volume you can add more. Or work on weaknesses with accessories. Weak on the bottom? Do some deficit deadlifts, opposite stance deadlifts, or low bar squats. Weak midway? Do some block or rack pulls or barbell rows or pullups. Be careful of accessory work the last 4-6 weeks, especially if it is a deadlift variation (it could mess up your deadlift tecnique). I would stop accessories closer to the end of the program.

 

[dk]

Thanks again everyone. I really appreciate the advice.

Anna, with all due respect, I have to disagree that "if you want to get better at something, you have to do it more than once per week. " Both as a general statement and in the context of deadlifts. While I did initially have much success with deadlifting 4-5 days per week on the PTTP program, after a certain point I found it much more beneficial to cut back. Indeed, I was able to attain my 1RM of 435lbs only after cutting down from 2x/week to once per week deadlifting in 2018. Plenty of well-regarded powerlifting programs like Wendler 5/3/1 only have you deadlift once per week. I do agree that with the volume dialed in well, deadlifting multiple times per week should be just fine. But I do not think it is necessary by any means. I do do some relevant accessory movements including RDL's and heavy swings. For me, the main current reason for deadlifting once per week is that I like being able to focus on one main compound lift per day. But I'm open to changing that. Perhaps in the future, I will do a 2x/week deadlift program again. However, this post was mostly about helping me with programming intensity and keeping the majority of reps in a "golden" 70-85% range regardless of the actual structure of the program.

william, I'm not sure why you mention running and my "running goal". Perhaps you are getting this confused with another thread? In fact, I am not able to run and haven't done so since before 2012. Perhaps you're thinking about the daily cardio that I mentioned? It's LISS on a stationary bike. I don't go very hard at all but definitely take it even easier before a heavy deadlift day. Regarding the volume and deload, I think what you are saying makes a lot of sense and I agree. I have been leaning heavily towards over-training as opposed to under-training on deadlifts (the opposite of you) and am looking to change this. Hence this post I will try your variation of this progression.

And still very interested if someone has a similar progression for pull-ups/dips/bench press/overhead press!

Thanks!

 

[william bad butt]

@dk

My apologies. I misread your original post. You mentioned 40 minutes of cardio and I was thinking 40 min of running. Your 435 lb deadlift is impressive, especially for your bodyweight, congrats!

In terms of those other lifts... The bench press is an easy movement to train because it doesn't require a lot of volume. In fact, you can probably get away with the same program as the deadlift. I do that, it works for me.

Why not do the pull ups, dips, and overhead press as accessories? This actually works out nice. The dips and presses complement the bench press and the pull ups complement the deadlifts. When you fail a deadlift, is it on the ground or mid level near the knees? Don't necessarily program them as strictly like the deadlift/bench, just get some volume in. For example: Mon/Wed/Thurs dips, followed by pull ups followed by presses 3 sets of 10. Over time, add volume (sets). Don't push too hard, this should be Easy/Medium and never a struggle. FRIDAY: Off day. Saturday: Deadlift and bench press per the program above. Sunday: OFF. This is just an idea.

I'm just throwing out some ideas. I like ultra-minimalist programs.

 

[Anna C]

Anna, with all due respect, I have to disagree that "if you want to get better at something, you have to do it more than once per week. " Both as a general statement and in the context of deadlifts. While I did initially have much success with deadlifting 4-5 days per week on the PTTP program, after a certain point I found it much more beneficial to cut back. Indeed, I was able to attain my 1RM of 435lbs only after cutting down from 2x/week to once per week deadlifting in 2018. Plenty of well-regarded powerlifting programs like Wendler 5/3/1 only have you deadlift once per week. I do agree that with the volume dialed in well, deadlifting multiple times per week should be just fine. But I do not think it is necessary by any means. I do do some relevant accessory movements including RDL's and heavy swings. For me, the main current reason for deadlifting once per week is that I like being able to focus on one main compound lift per day. But I'm open to changing that. Perhaps in the future, I will do a 2x/week deadlift program again. However, this post was mostly about helping me with programming intensity and keeping the majority of reps in a "golden" 70-85% range regardless of the actual structure of the program.

You might be right! And you've experiences success that way, so maybe it's the best way for you. The context in which it's done probably matters a lot, as does the "training age" of the person doing it.

I do think that doing the accessory movements, as you describe, RDls and heavy swings, likely makes a big difference, such that deadlifting once per week can be enough to drive progress.

 

[dk]

Thanks again everyone.

@william bad butt , No worries, I figured you were talking about that cardio. I do already lower the intensity of the cardio the day before a heavy deadlift but I'll be sure to pay even more attention to it going forward. As far as failing deadlifts, 100% of the time it is 0-3 inches off the ground. I don't think I've ever failed once it goes up higher than that though the form may occasionally be ugly. I am planning on incorporating some deficit deadlifts into my routine to help improve this. Like you say, I will take it easy with this stuff as I near the heavier deadlifts.

As far as pull-ups/chin-ups/dips, I've been programming them as main lifts since I do all of these weighted and am hoping to improve my 1RM's. I realize this is quite unorthodox but it's been working fairly well for me though, as with deadlifts, I think that my intensity has been WAY too high leading to overtraining and exhaustion though here it's less of a systemic exhaustion as with deadlifts and more of a localized one, if that makes any sense. Currently, my records here are BW+100lbs for pull-ups, BW+115lbs for chin-ups and BW+105lbsx4 for dips. I do think it would benefit me to occasionally switch to using pull-ups/chin-ups/dips as accessory movements as you describe though. I'll play around with this stuff, I appreciate the ideas!

@Anna C , Thanks. I'm also open to being completely wrong but I do think we're generally on the same page (or thereabouts) especially when you factor in the accessory movements

 

[Bpj911]

I don't think that is even close to enough dead lifting if you are not back squatting at least once a week. Especially if you've been lifting for 8 years. I know you have gotten a bunch of contradictory answers here but the hardest and the easiest answer is you need to figure out what works for you. Since you've been lifting for 8 years you need to figure out how to add volume without exceeding your recovery. If you have not tried Sheiko, you might find it to be easy to follow. Try 37, and then 30 or 31 depending on your BW, and then 32 and see how your dead lift responds.