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Other/Mixed Decisions, decisions, decisons...

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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GeoffreyLevens

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I have a personal training question and am having difficulty finding a good answer.

Age 68, main goals are maintain or improve body composition (I don’t really have much extra but adding some lean muscle is always good). I think that as we age, strength and mobility are keys to staying healthy and independent and I am looking at the “long game”. I don’t compete at anything and don’t ever go for RM1 or test for PR. Rather, as something gets “too easy” increase the load a bit and continue…

In the past I have had quite a bit of knee pain esp in one knee. The main issue is instability in one hip which can cause my knee to go valgus esp when suddenly loaded. Last couple months I have been just doing body weight correctives, wall squats, slow body weight squats, and bridge progressions as well as ab wheel and pullups. Knees feel ok but if I’m not very careful with the squats I can piss the one off and get it to hurt for a day or two. I am seeing an Escogue teacher next week for more work on that. Have previously worked with two different PT’s.

Finally saw an orthopedic surgeon a couple days ago seeking Synvisc injection. After all angles xrays and some functional testing he said my knees were actually in quite good shape with only a very small amount of arthritic degeneration in the painful one. I was very surprised at how much joint space I have and how balanced everything looked in the images! He told me bascially do whatever, just go slow at building up…careful as always. Synvisc much later and if I get into “trouble” he would recommend single, low dose cortisone injection to the knee.

I have worked almost exclusively with kb’s and some bodyweight stuff for the last 10 years. Was contemplating swapping out my kb collection for a bar and plates and squat rack…

So here’s the big question: Which is likely to be better i.e. safer and more effective at building strength etc, kettlebells or barbells? Or is really a combination ideal? Or even move to just bodyweight work Money is a bit of an issue, hence the idea to sell the one to acquire the other.
 
I had both for a while and I only still have my kettlebells for whatever that's worth. My favorite exercise is the TGU. If you had to chose 1 exercise to do for the rest of your days what would it be? Whatever your most favorite exercise is would be the implement I would chose. None of us are getting any younger, why not enjoy the process as much or more than the result.
 
If money is an issue then the obvious choice is bodyweight. I am a big fan of simplicity (plus frugal). If strength is what you are after then I think BW and Bells can get you there.
You have a few years on me, but not many. I haven't touched barbells in years and have no intention to, nor do I feel the need. You already have the KB's...
I get plenty strong for my needs without barbells.
Other folks may have different experiences (and certainly opinions)
 
@GeoffreyLevens, have you been working with an SFG? If doctor says you're healthy but your knees hurt, you need to find out what you're doing that's bothering your knees. It's not as simple as asking for a general recommendation on the subject of barbells versus kettlebells, nor is it necessarily going to be something a physical therapist can correct for you, IMHO.

Although some people cannot, most people can learn to swing a kettlebell safely, effectively, and in a way that does not cause injury or exacerbate chronic conditions. I believe that if you asked most SFG's to pick a single exercise, it would be the kettlebell swing.

GeoffreyLevens said:
Age 68, main goals are maintain or improve body composition (I don’t really have much extra but adding some lean muscle is always good). I think that as we age, strength and mobility are keys to staying healthy and independent and I am looking at the “long game”. I don’t compete at anything and don’t ever go for RM1 or test for PR. Rather, as something gets “too easy” increase the load a bit and continue…
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I don't think limiting one's self in this way is necessarily good. Building strength sometimes requires testing how strong you are and, very much to the point here at StrongFirst, if you lift as we suggest, a lift that you fail should not hurt you but should fail "with dignity."

I'm 62 - you sound like you've given up. I hope I'm wrong about that, and I don't mean to judge you, but playing it "safe" as you describe sounds penny wise and pound foolish to me.

Steve "tough love today" Freides
 
Bro Mo, despite the ortho's findings, I am just not able to do TGU's safely. Love the movement but my knees scream at me.

Offwidth, good thoughts there. Simple is indeed good and I do have the kb's and a pullup bar
 
Steve, thanks. I have not given up, just realized that I tend to get over competitive and can tend to get sloppy in the heat of the moment. I have been working almost exclusively with kettlebells for about 10 years (with some gaps of just bodyweight) and only injury ever was biceps tendonitis during 1st year going too heavy too soon with kb snatch. My knee issue is subtle and I have had screening from FSM that revealed nothing at all. One PT helped me quite a bit and I think I have a pretty good handle on the cause at this point. Going to see what Egoscue work can do to wake up my 1/2 asleep glute which is the real cause of the problem.

I can usually do 100 lb kb deadlift using uneven bells (20 and 24), switch hands each rep without issues. Swings and snatches can get problematic when I go heavy because under the sudden load change of the ballistics, my glutes on one side tend to not fire when they should. Even when I really work to stay tight, sometimes they just shut off. So it could be I just need to work up slower. I am working regularly on rewiring the neural connection which I think was damaged from a stack of injuries to L5 and sacrum in high school and in the years immediately following, then again in my 40's.

So not given up, just fail to see any value for me in trying to max out. I don't care about PR's, have not since I was a teenager really. If I can can make even very slow progress, primarily not losing ground, I'm very happy with that. My sleep is totally disrupted from chronic residuals of lyme disease so I don't recover all that well. I guess you could call that giving up. If so that's fine with me. I just know my limits and am content to work within them while gently pushing at the edges.
 
I did work with an RKC when I started. I am very doubtful anyone could tell much from Skype viewing since the only person I have seen out of several who seemed to "get" what is going on did so with hands actually in contact, feeling what muscles were doing during specific, fairly small movements. Not much outwardly visible. Sure, knee tends to go valgus when I try pistol squat, but the why is pretty subtle.
 
I do LSD type bicycle ride every other day for about an hour. Getting cold and dark now so using a hydrolic, indoor trainer I hooked my bike into. I tried a rowing machine for awhile and really enjoyed it but my low back said "No." A bit of online searching revealed that chronic lumbar injuries are extremely common with rowing. I think bicycle better for knees too, that very controlled, light movement pumps a lot of blood and lymph through areas that don't usually get much
 
As long as your bike is fitted right, and you have decent pedal configuration, then cycling is 'usually' very benign on the knees. Often times prescribed as physiotherapy for knee rehab.
 
@GeoffreyLevens
Sorry for being blunt, but nobody here can help you and you know it.
GeoffreyLevens said:
I did work with an RKC when I started. I am very doubtful anyone could tell much from Skype viewing since the only person I have seen out of several who seemed to "get" what is going on did so with hands actually in contact, feeling what muscles were doing during specific, fairly small movements. Not much outwardly visible. Sure, knee tends to go valgus when I try pistol squat, but the why is pretty subtle.
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You said it yourself.
You only met one person who "got" what's going on with your body. Several others you've seen in person didn't "get" it and you think via Skype it's even harder, so nobody could help you via Skype either.
So how do you expect valuable advise from us, people on a forum who have neither personal nor video contact with you and can only react to something you write.
Don't ask questions about whether you should use KBs or barbells and instead get on your phone, call that RKC and let him/her help you!
 
@GeoffreyLevens good luck with the PT, let us know how it goes.

I'm only 34, but from the feeling I get from barbell training and KB training, I end up a lot stiffer with barbells. I guess that I would prefer KB as I age because of that. If you eventually decide to sell your KB, maybe it's a good idea to keep a 16 or 24 at least.
 
If I was your age and had a bad knee I would stay away from unilateral training. No pistols, no lunges, nothing of the short. Bilateral training could be done with either kettlebells or barbells, depending on what kind of training stimulus is needed. Both have their sides.
 
@GeoffreyLevens, you list many exercises. Allow me to suggest a minimalist approach. Swing a kettlebell and don't do anything else for a while except walk. Those two things together are enough to keep you fit.

Like the so-called elimination diet - you cut back to only one or two exercises, you do nothing else but them, and you see how you feel. Then you add one thing and see how you feel, and so on.

-S-
 
Thank you all. Pistols I used as an example but I found out early in this I can't do lunges, split squats, or pistols because they aggravate. Have not done swings in several months but the were aggravating my knee was the reason I stopped doing them. I went from snatches, to swings, to front squats and kb deadlifts. to no weight, because I just could not do anything with added weight without pissing off my knee. I mentioned bodyweight squats above but last few weeks it is just iso holds against a wall. That and bridges, pullups and pushups plus the bicycle and ab wheel. Mostly avoiding knee involvement. Seeing someone Monday for another, different kind of evaluation.
 
Will do. What I expect is set of "exercises" to adjust posture and use of whatever is deemed to be effecting knee function. She is an Egoscue instructor who recently moved locally and I have been hearing a lot of excellent reports about that particular m.o. for years including several friends who have been bailed out of chronic pain using it.
 
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