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Barbell Do you think Rippetoe was full of BS when he criticized power training?

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Bull_Rush

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There is a video of him on YouTube where he flat out said, albeit with some trepidation, that power (in the sense of athletic performance) is mostly genetic. You can improve it by a tiny bit, but that’s it.

Then, me being me, I looked at the comments section. Many people disagreed with him, including a track coach.

Personally I don’t give a rat‘s behind about any athletic quality other than strength. I only really pay attention to endurance because I’m sincerely terrified of gassing out in the middle of a boxing or judo fight. I’ve been there before. But I also do wonder if Lu Xiaojun and Pyrros Dimas were champions mostly because of their extreme strength on the squat (Lu squatting in excess of 600 pounds with a damn pause, Olympic style) or were required to also win the genetic “explosiveness lottery” in order to be champions.

I really wish power is mostly genetic and Rippetoe was right. If so, that’s one less thing to worry about in training. I can just focus on my powerlifts.
 
Boris Bachmann said:
I'd have to read/hear what he said w. context to judge, but if training, technique, and tactics were not central to application of power in sports there'd be no reason to have a contest - we'd just line up for a lab coat to take a sample and determine who won the genetic lottery.
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His words were crystal clear. “Power is pretty much genetic.”
 
I think there is no reason to believe that power is different than any otherskill.

I believe no one would disagree with the fact that Mike Tyson was a very powerful person and probably has many genetic advantages in this area, but once he stopped living and training properly (after his first coach passes away) one does not need to be a boxing expert to see that all of his skills declined including his power.

All skills can be trained. And with training every body could be a much better version of themselves in any skill.

I am determined to hit the “Simple” goal of S&S. That older version of my self, will be more powerful and explosive than my younger self today.

Best.
 
Ege said:
I think there is no reason to believe that power is different than any otherskill.

I believe no one would disagree with the fact that Mike Tyson was a very powerful person and probably has many genetic advantages in this area, but once he stopped living and training properly (after his first coach passes away) one does not need to be a boxing expert to see that all of his skills declined including his power.

All skills can be trained. And with training every body could be a much better version of themselves in any skill.

I am determined to hit the “Simple” goal of S&S. That older version of my self, will be more powerful and explosive than my younger self today.

Best.
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Tyson was a jacked 190 at age 12-13. He used to street fight dudes in their 20's on the regular. A six grader fighting grown men. He had some lackluster later fights since he quit training and coked and drank his a$$ off, while fighting other mutants.
 
I got tested for standing vertical jump before I ever trained with barbells.

I was never elite, but I was always in the top quintile, even before training to be explosive.
 
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watchnerd said:
I got tested for standing vertical jump before I ever trained with barbells.

I was never elite, but I was always in the top quintile, even before training to be explosive.
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Which affirms Rippetoe to be correct according to you and your experience, right?
 
Imma go against the trend and say people who were above the power curve had lifestyles/informal practices that promoted it.

Power is to a large extent, technique driven. To trot out the elite is out of context in my opinion. If you randomly pull a couple dozen people and have them work on power output, they will increase power output compared to controls who do not.
And as Kenny is quick to point out, and I have learned firsthand, hypertrophy training causes a decrease in power output. You can get it back, but is tough to train concurrently. Its an adaptive response, like hypertrophy. Yes there are genetic high performers but everyone can improve it with training. Is it worth the training time?
 
Bull_Rush said:


His words were crystal clear. “Power is pretty much genetic.”
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I'm not bothering to watch it but if you're wondering, s%*#, of course genetics matter. A LOT.

As a coach, I would say that I can coach someone to be A LOT stronger and more powerful. Sometimes way stronger and more powerful than that person would've ever believed if they hadn't dedicated themselves to the task of doing so. If they hadn't committed the time and resources to that training, no one would have ever known.

How that matters to you and your training and goals, I don't know.
 
Boris Bachmann said:
I'm not bothering to watch it
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Thank you - me, neither.

Boris Bachmann said:
but if you're wondering, s%*#, of course genetics matter. A LOT.
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One of my favorite baseball expressions is when they talk about a player's "ceiling." They mean how far they think a specific player, assuming good coaching and hard work and luck and all that, can go. Of course, there are books that tell you that 90% of success is hard work - that's true in many areas of endeavor, but when we're talking about athletic ability, I agree that genetics matter, a lot.

Music is, IMO, also an area, because one uses one's own body, where genetics matter.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
Thank you - me, neither.


One of my favorite baseball expressions is when they talk about a player's "ceiling." They mean how far they think a specific player, assuming good coaching and hard work and luck and all that, can go. Of course, there are books that tell you that 90% of success is hard work - that's true in many areas of endeavor, but when we're talking about athletic ability, I agree that genetics matter, a lot.

Music is, IMO, also an area, because one uses one's own body, where genetics matter.

-S-
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I’d agree with that, especially the music part. I’m probably one of the least musically gifted people out there...... I can’t even tap my toe on beat.
 
I was brought up in the strength training game via WFAC (I still live in Wichita Falls) and over the years I've come to realize from rip that he's a 1 trick pony... I'm fortunate to have learned to lift at age 14 from him (36 now) but outside of taking skinny HS aged kids and bulking them up etc he doesn't really have much else in regards to training. Dr. Kilgore & pendlay used to run the xfit workouts & Olympic lifting teams due to that... He's opposed to literally every other form of training outside of doing it his way! I've seen him scream & berate members for doing db curls or the leg press lol
 
I am afraid there is a bit of confusion in between being genetically advantageous in one area and training/improving a skill.

Or there might be an overall confusion about expression and/or measurement of power in human beings.

I am increasing my power in almost every possible way that you can measure it since I have started exercising three years ago. And that is all what matters. Yes, I can’t be an elite athlete, yes, my age will catch with my beginner gains at some point, but I can and will be more powerful than myself a couch potato in almost every possible way that you can measure power output.

If I am able to be a better version of myself, I don’t understand how an elite athlete can not just because he/she already has better genetics than me.
 
james_1127 said:
I was brought up in the strength training game via WFAC (I still live in Wichita Falls) and over the years I've come to realize from rip that he's a 1 trick pony... I'm fortunate to have learned to lift at age 14 from him (36 now) but outside of taking skinny HS aged kids and bulking them up etc he doesn't really have much else in regards to training. Dr. Kilgore & pendlay used to run the xfit workouts & Olympic lifting teams due to that... He's opposed to literally every other form of training outside of doing it his way! I've seen him scream & berate members for doing db curls or the leg press lol
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I already know he’s a one trick pony. I dealt with him in his Starting Strength forum. The only thing I wonder about is if he’s right that those who start at a 23 inch vertical jump can really only manage to increase it to 24 despite hard work. It’s likely there are strength coaches in many corners of the world who already came to the same conclusion. Don Fairbanks from this very thread is one of them.
 
Don Fairbanks said:
Tyson was a jacked 190 at age 12-13. He used to street fight dudes in their 20's on the regular. A six grader fighting grown men. He had some lackluster later fights since he quit training and coked and drank his a$$ off, while fighting other mutants.
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Yes, and this validates my point even better.

Improper training, caused him to lose his power rapidly.
 
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