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Old Forum Double LCCJ Program for 'easy strength, conditioning and hypertrophy'

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Pasha1

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Hello everyone, great to finally speak with you all. Due to severely, severely limited training constraints I am looking to hot everything - strength, conditioning/fat loss & hypertrophy in as little as 20 minutes a day.

It's literally all I have to train, time-wise. I have read S & S and loved it but don't have clearance to do TGUs due to back issues/chronic condition.

LCCJ have got the green light, though.

Can anyone recommend a routine to start with? I know you're all screaming 'GOOGLE!!!' at me but I would prefer to be pointed in the direction of a program by knowledgeable people like those who post here, rather than use one at random which will lead to disappiontmen.

Alternatively, I have been thinking that the following parameters could be used indefinitely, up to 6 times per week:

* Start off at 50 reps a in sets of no more than 10

* Aim to add 10 reps a day until up to 100 in total

* Then add 10 reps whenever you feel able to at little extra effort until up to 200 in total

* All sessions to be completed at a relatively easy 75% of effort - working hard but not to exhaust onsself. BUT DO push yourself all out for one sessions every 2 weeks, where you aim to complete the reps ASAP

* This is where I need guidance as to when it would be good to move up a bell size. Is managing to complete these 200 reps in 15 minutes too restrictive of strength, because it will take ages to reach that level? If so, is 200 in 20 minutes, or 150 in 15 minutes, more realistic? The latter

Are there any tweaks to this, (would aiming for 150 in 15 minutes be more realistic, for instance?) or the time period to complete the reps in?

Thanks in adavance for your guidance! :-D
 
You could do something like ladders of 2-3-5 for 20:00. Don't worry about pushing the pace or adding a certain number of sets per session. Go by feel. Take rest days when you need them. With autoregulatory programming it is important to listen to your body

Now, for strength and hypertrophy 200 reps is way too many. I would set the bar at no more than 100 reps in 20:00, starting with a weight you can comfortably do 50 times. Doubling volume is a lot.
 
To the OP: Could you say a little more about your injury and restrictions?  It's pretty unusual, at least to my admittedly feeble mind, that a getup would be more problematic than a double overhead kettlebell lockout.  It's possible, of course - and I happen to be one example of it, in fact - but it's still unusual.  In my case, it's that I tolerate thoracic extension without problems but not so rotation.

Thank you.

-S-
 
Geoff Neupert's material has lots of complex based programs that may work for you. One of his main themes seems to be getting the most bang for your buck with 2 kettlebells and 20 minutes.

Pavel's Return of the Kettlebell has some great stuff on ladders with LCCJ.

This article may be another good source for ideas.
http://breakingmuscle.com/kettlebells/adding-muscle-with-kettlebells-how-i-build-up-my-grapplers

Lastly, I don't know your back issue, but it just sounds odd that your doctor is ok with ballistic cleans and jerks, but the relatively light, slow, controlled TGU is not. Maybe you should get a second opinion.
 
Some interesting thoughts, thanks guys.

Andy - because money is also an issue (and I on;y have doubles up to 24kg) and because conditioning is important I thought that 200 in 15 mins would keep me occupied long enough for the KBs I have! :-D BUT, from what you have said, either way, 200 in 15 minutes is a little optimistic, you feel? If so, what do you think might be better, 150 in 15 minutes? 150 in 20 minutes?

Steve Freides - I herniated a disc 4 years ago and have had problems since. I now have sciatica, although no-one seems sure if the 2 are linked. The physio I use thinks the pivoting on the elbow to a half-sit-up could cause me problems.

David T - thanks for the link - glad to see that LCCJ are seen as a very good move. That article gives a lot of food for thought, thanks again.
 
Pasha, lumbar disc?  Your lumbar shouldn't be a problem for a getup.  Herniated discs can be symptomatic or not, could be the same disc or a different one.  IMHO, you should consider getting a second opinion, and from a sports medicine or orthopedist if you haven't already.

It is important to note that the getup, as we teach it, doesn't involve lumbar flexion as a typical situp can.  If your physio isn't correctly informed about the kind of getup you want to do, you might explain in detail, ask him to watch or read some of our resources.

I cannot give you medical advice, but getting a second source of medical advice seems prudent to me, given what you've said thus far.

-S-
 
I'm not certain how LCCJ got the green light but the TGU didn't on this one. As Steve F. pointed out  lumbar flexion shouldn't be involved with the TGU so there might be a form issue here.

Regarding your training goals, first and foremost see if you can get an SFG I or higher to review your form. Second, if you a pressed for time and are looking for the results you are posting, Geoff Neupert has some great stuff out there from Kettlebell Express, Ultra, Strong, Muscle, and More Kettlebell Muscle. There are enough full on programs in some of his work to keep you busy for decades (not exaggerating).

Hope it helps and keep us posted.
 
Thanks Steve @ Mike: I have scheduled an appointment with a new physio to see what he recommends, and I'll show her the video demonstrations done by Mark Toomey on You Tube.

IF the original opinion is confirmed, do either of you have any comments regarding my proposed program, outlined above?

I will also begin searching for a SFG coach to check on form - whichever program I evebtually opt for.

Thanks again, Guys!!
 
RIGHT GUYS, I have had a rethink about the programming.

I think 200 IS too high, as Andy  said. I remember Fast Tens said aroubnd 100 reps (albeit of different exercises) is optimal.

100 in 10 minutes might lead to the steady pace Mark Toomey demonstrates on the SFG II guidnace video on YouTube being eschewed, and poor form. So, 100 in 15 minutes might be best.

Once every 2 weeks I will go all-out with one set on LCCJ, to condition the lactic acid energy pathway/system.

What you reckon, fellas? This a goer?
 
I also think I'll move faster  than Mark Toomey on the demo video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Icc6N4b8wSA but still controlled.

Say 4 seconds per rep.

I'm quite excited, I think this'll work!! *fingers crossed*
 
Also, if strength/hypertrophy are your goals you may want to consider doing a clean and press instead of a jerk. Lighter weights for high reps simply will not build a ton of strength/muscle in your shoulders the way a grinding press will.
 
Hi Andy, I thought LCCJ were a-ok for hypertrophy? Mark Toomey says so on the SFG II video and I think Andrew Read (of the other Hardstyle 'school') rates them for the same.

I thought good ol' Dan JOhn also liked them?

I love C & P but high volume makes my shoulders stiff and not sure I have the time to work a program reliant on them, much as I loved ETK ladders.

 
 
Pasha, what about the Total Tension Complex by Pavel? That is geared towards strength and hypertrophy.
 
Pasha, the LCCJ can build hypertrophy when you use a relatively heavy weight. If you're doing 100 hardstyle reps of doubles in 15 minutes, then I'm going to venture a guess and say you're not going heavy enough.
 
Pasha, the "Total Tension Complex" Faisal has suggested is a good idea.  A longer term approach could be a scaled way down RTK, just the LC part.

 
 
Hello Faisal, thanks for that recommendation - that routine looks insane! :-D

It might be one I try in future, as an alterbative to my main LCCJ program. I think I need my technique sorted with a SFG before I do those moves, though. My LCCJ was assessed around 18 months ago by a trainer from the 'other' hardstyle school and was okayed, so I'll stick to this.

Incidentally, I saw a new physio. They said that TGUs should be okay but to stop if feel discomfort (duh!!). Also, LCCJ got approval and they said they had a patient who used KBs to rehab sciatica to fantastic effect.

Although TGUs are back on-menu, due to time constraints, I think I will give my own prog outlined above a bash. In addition, I am a reluctant trainer, I don't really enjoy it. But I find LCCJs quite fun to do (as well as killers!).

I can TGU quite easily with my 24, but will use my 20s for the double LCCJ program until I can do the 100 in 15 minutes.

Thanks for all your advice, guys.

Keep strong,

Pasha

 
 
Incidentally - should I apply 'Hardstyle Laziness' to my routine, or go all out effort?
 
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