Kettlebell Evolution of Pavel T's swing?

[Smile-n-Nod]

It's interesting to see Pavel T's swing technique in this old video:

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He seems to hinge pretty early, and the kettlebell goes almost to the ground on the backswing. Also, he seems to advocate a much higher swing, almost like the so-called American swing. Have his ideas of a correct swing evolved over the years?

 

[Matts]

People who are intelligent and open-minded are always evolving with more experience and information. Pavel is very strong and coordinated in that video, and can do a lot more risk-free than many others. His shoulder is impeccably packed, the basic timing and technique is all there, and he's generating height on the swing ballistically, not by hyperextending the back and using his traps to "lift" it up, as most "American swingers" do.

The evolution of teaching and standards has been a good refinement, and made teaching a broader range of people effective and safe. How's your swing evolution coming along? Wishing you good progress!

 

[Smile-n-Nod]

How's your swing evolution coming along? Wishing you good progress!

I've been working with a lighter bell, focusing on tension in my working lat and keeping my shoulders square. I think the swing is getting better, but I'll have a better idea when I go back some day to the 24-kg I used in my last video.

Thanks for asking.

 

[taikei]

It evolved and were standardized over time. To my knowledge, Brett Jones and Mark Reifkind along with countless others contributed.

 

[Matts]

I think the swing is getting better, but I'll have a better idea when I go back some day to the 24-kg I used in my last video.

That sounds good- but take your time getting back to the 24...there's no rush. Many good things will happen over some time when you swing a bell that you can nail the form with. You've put a lot of effort into this- keep it up and you'll reap the rewards!

 

[Sasa Rajnovic]

This video just shows how valuable it is to stick with StrongFirst and not go through the SFG certification only once. The system is improving all the time and even for talented, hard working individuals who kicks a#@ during SFG there is a lot to learn from the system.

 

[Antti]

Not to ruin any parties or the discussion, but are you sure it is 100% OK to post that video? I'm pretty sure that it is copyrighted material and not in Youtube by the choice of the makers of the video.

 

[Brett Jones]

Absolutely evolved- greater connection and greater power IMO

 

[Smile-n-Nod]

Not to ruin any parties or the discussion, but are you sure it is 100% OK to post that video? I'm pretty sure that it is copyrighted material and not in Youtube by the choice of the makers of the video.

I don't know. I know other videos on a variety of topics have been removed from YouTube due to copyright restrictions. Perhaps the copyright holder can contact YouTube if YouTube shouldn't be hosting them.

 

[Steve Freides]

Not to ruin any parties or the discussion, but are you sure it is 100% OK to post that video? I'm pretty sure that it is copyrighted material and not in Youtube by the choice of the makers of the video.

@Antti, there is a lot of the older material that has different ownership - at least that's my understanding. No, those things shouldn't be on YouTube, IMHO - you're completely correct.

I will paraphrase what Pavel has said on this topic. Our principles remain unchanged but we are always refining our methods.

-S-

 

[Smile-n-Nod]

@Steve Freides, I'll be happy to remove the link from my original post; or, you can edit or remove this thread as you wish.

 

[kb02]

Like wine gets better as it ages!

 

[Steve Freides]

@Steve Freides, I'll be happy to remove the link from my original post; or, you can edit or remove this thread as you wish.

The link is fine. What was, was.

-S-

 

[Snowman]

We humans tend to be resistant to change. Once we find something that works at all, we are hesitant to change, even if it's for the better. Many of us, and many groups, find one thing that's effective, then camp out right there and milk it for all it's worth. Don't get me wrong, many successful businesses run this way, under the slogan "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." It takes a certain degree of humillity, disregard for appearances, and obsession with improvement to drive someone to try something new in hopes of improving what is already good. One of the things I love about SF is that, as an institution, it has the maturity to pursue improvement. For instance, there are many Pavel-authored pieces (mostly from the 90's and early 2000's) that recommend using higher rep sets of ballistics for GPP. Now we see that fewer reps and more sets (A+A) can yield better results for GPP. This doesn't make higher rep sets "bad," and it doesn't mean that we don't do high rep sets at all, it just means that we understand more about the context in which certain rep schemes are appropriate. Pavel could have simply said "Do swings until you can't feel your hands," and stuck with that. People still would have gotten good results. Thankfully, Pavel and the people he has surrounded himself with are not content with "good enough."

 

[Steve Freides]

@Snowman, very well said, and thank you very much.

-S-

 

[Rif]

Yes it has evolved, as has all the techniques and the curriculum over the past 14 years, which I believe is one our greatest strengths. I remember after each cert Pavel and the instructors would always have a de brief where he would ask questions about what we did well and what we could do better.
He would take copious notes and fine tune and distill our opinions and his observations into improvement to the next manual and curriculum; always trying to get better all the time.
We experimented and kept what worked and discarded what didn't. Of course when the system is principle based this is the key. It's about the principles, not just the methods

 

[wespom9]

Constant refinement - the pinnacle of success. 1% better everyday. Thanks SF

 

[Riley O'Neill]

This video was from Russian Kettlebell Challenge from 2001. I figure at this point there would have been a small amount of R&D into the programs and movements. This would have been before the institution of hardstyle lifting was really a thing and 5 years of evolution went from this content to Enter the Kettlebell. One thing I noticed between both books and videos from each period is how much more detail oriented the lessons became. 7 years after that we have S&S which became way more detail oriented. The R&D seems to be becoming more particular rather than reinvent the wheel. S&S leaves no interpretation or decision making for the reader while the first Kettlebell books by Pavel I felt left a lot of decision making to the reader. I personally liked reading about the variety of the other movements in the old books but really appreciate the program in a book and no detail left unexplained and no reader guesswork nature of S&S.


Does anyone know how heavy the weights he was using in these old videos? I would think like 24kg or so.

 

[taikei]

Something that I remember that's an adjustable hollow kettlebell which can fill up to 40kg or something and is filled way less.

I remember Pavel answering like this long time ago.

 

[Steve W.]

Does anyone know how heavy the weights he was using in these old videos? I would think like 24kg or so.

Something that I remember that's an adjustable hollow kettlebell which can fill up to 40kg or something and is filled way less.

I remember Pavel answering like this long time ago.

I recall Pavel saying that the heavy KB he used was a modified overweight "bulldog" (over 32kg). IRRC (and I'm not 100% sure I am), it actually weighed something like 97lbs (44kg).

Seeing him press that KB in the original RKC video really dramatized to me the high tension techniques, that I was introduced to earlier through PTTP, to a new level.