Explosive pullups, McGill pullups: should pullups be treated more like deadlifts?

[guardian7]

This is an interesting video that argues for max effort singles or doubles by Dr. Stuart McGill who is mentioned a number of times in StrongFirst content:

Dr. McGill makes the case in the video that pullup training or injury recovery should concentrate on 1-2 explosive efforts and higher reps will come automatically. I would add squeeze the glutes to the cues.

I already reset every deadlit with short rest periods and focus on power. I tried this approach to pullups last night and really liked it. Similar to StrongFirst low rep repeat sets, I was able to have very high quality reps while still achieving a decent volume even though I had already done my main focus pullovers and dips. In the future, I will probably do a circuit with a lower body movement that is not too taxing or works balance like calf raises or bodyweight lunges, or light single leg deadlifts, something to make it more time efficient.

Should everyone who is not a total beginner do explosive singles or doubles pushups until they can get about 6 pullups when they test? Should this approach be once a week and paired with fighter pullup program type descending pyramid approaches? Dr. McGill mentioned that athletes usually automatically get 6 or more by training like this.

Another option might be a slow eccentric after the explosive concentric.

 

[ShawnM]

This is an interesting video that argues for max effort singles or doubles by Dr. Stuart McGill who is mentioned a number of times in StrongFirst content:

Dr. McGill makes the case in the video that pullup training or injury recovery should concentrate on 1-2 explosive efforts and higher reps will come automatically. I would add squeeze the glutes to the cues.

I already reset every deadlit with short rest periods and focus on power. I tried this approach to pullups last night and really liked it. Similar to StrongFirst low rep repeat sets, I was able to have very high quality reps while still achieving a decent volume even though I had already done my main focus pullovers and dips. In the future, I will probably do a circuit with a lower body movement that is not too taxing or works balance like calf raises or bodyweight lunges, or light single leg deadlifts, something to make it more time efficient.

Should everyone who is not a total beginner do explosive singles or doubles pushups until they can get about 6 pullups when they test? Should this approach be once a week and paired with fighter pullup program type descending pyramid approaches? Dr. McGill mentioned that athletes usually automatically get 6 or more by training like this.

Another option might be a slow eccentric after the explosive concentric.

That does look interesting and what you're saying makes sense to me. Give it a run, I might try the same thing as I'm getting over elbow surgery and my pull ups are garnage at the moment.

 

[Don Fairbanks]

That does look interesting and what you're saying makes sense to me. Give it a run, I might try the same thing as I'm getting over elbow surgery and my pull ups are garnage at the moment.

Garnage, a combo of garbage and carnage ?

 

[ali]

What about to chin, or chest and hollow body?
Brian has legs crossed with arch and not to full height....so wondering if for strength focus there is a difference compared to power/neural drive? Or just overthinking? A quick explosive pull to height that it takes you? It's that end range thing.....yeah, probably overthinking...

 

[Don Fairbanks]

This is an interesting video that argues for max effort singles or doubles by Dr. Stuart McGill who is mentioned a number of times in StrongFirst content:

Dr. McGill makes the case in the video that pullup training or injury recovery should concentrate on 1-2 explosive efforts and higher reps will come automatically. I would add squeeze the glutes to the cues.

I already reset every deadlit with short rest periods and focus on power. I tried this approach to pullups last night and really liked it. Similar to StrongFirst low rep repeat sets, I was able to have very high quality reps while still achieving a decent volume even though I had already done my main focus pullovers and dips. In the future, I will probably do a circuit with a lower body movement that is not too taxing or works balance like calf raises or bodyweight lunges, or light single leg deadlifts, something to make it more time efficient.

Should everyone who is not a total beginner do explosive singles or doubles pushups until they can get about 6 pullups when they test? Should this approach be once a week and paired with fighter pullup program type descending pyramid approaches? Dr. McGill mentioned that athletes usually automatically get 6 or more by training like this.

Another option might be a slow eccentric after the explosive concentric.

I think they're great, especially for bigger body types.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

concentrate on 1-2 explosive efforts...I already reset every deadlit with short rest periods and focus on power.

Cluster Set Training

This is Cluster Set Training; taking short rest periods in between Repetition in a Set of an Exercise.

Rest between Cluster Set Retition is 10 to around 60 seconds. With load of around 48-62% of 1 Repetiotion Max with Traditional Strength Power is developed. With load of 10-40% of 1 Repetition Max, Speed is developed.

Dr Jonathan Oliver Cluster Set Hypetrophy Training
Oliver research centered around how athlets could increase muscle mass, in season with out decreasing Maxumum Strength, Power and/or Speed.

Oliver research determined that athletes how performed Cluster Set Training Exercise with the right protocol increase muscle mass while maintaining Maximum Strength, Power and/or Speed.

Traditional Hypertrophy Training

This method works for increasing muscle mass. However, it is Hypertropy Training is solely used in a Training Block, there is a decrease in Maximum Strength, Power and/or Speed.

I was able to have very high quality reps while still achieving a decent volume even though I had already done my main focus pullovers and dips.

Exercise Training Priorty

A greater training effect for Power and/or Speed is elicited when these movements are performed first in a training program or on a seperate day by themselves.

Another option might be a slow eccentric after the explosive concentric.

Slow Eccentrics

This approach increases "Time Under Tension", which is effective for increasing muscle mass.

However, Slow Eccentric develop Slow Twitch Muscle Fiber to a greater degree than Fast Twich Strengh Muscle Fiber.

Maximum Strength development occurs with...

Fast Eccentrics

Performing an Eccenctric Pull Up, Squat, Bench Press, etc. is more effective in developing the Fast Twitch Strength and Power Muscle Fiber when an Eccentric Repetition is performed in 1-2 Seconds.

For more information on this...

Fast and "Super Fast"Ballistic Eccentric Training

Fast and "Super Fast"Ballistic Eccentric Training

Eccentric Training Eccentric Strength Training is one area the many individual lack knowledge in. Most individual perform... Slow Eccentric Movements A Slow Eccentric Movement primarily innervates... 1) Slow Twitch (Endurance) Muscle Fiber' The Slow Twitch (Endurance) Type I Muscle Fiber...

www.strongfirst.com

 

[3letterslong]

That was interesting. He was doing singles, but I think he's a long way from max effort, I bet he could do quite a few reps.

What was that bit about the tongue when he was relaxing between reps?

 

[Don Fairbanks]

That was interesting. He was doing singles, but I think he's a long way from max effort, I bet he could do quite a few reps.

What was that bit about the tongue when he was relaxing between reps?

Tongue to soft palate for relaxation, tongue to hard palate for activation.

 

[guardian7]

What about to chin, or chest and hollow body?
Brian has legs crossed with arch and not to full height....so wondering if for strength focus there is a difference compared to power/neural drive? Or just overthinking? A quick explosive pull to height that it takes you? It's that end range thing.....yeah, probably overthinking...

Good point but I think it is partly due to the fact that he is such a big guy and the video is a bit old. I know there is such a thing in calisthenics as the high pullup which is a progression to a muscle up which would work well for this.

 

[guardian7]

Cluster Set Training

This is Cluster Set Training; taking short rest periods in between Repetition in a Set of an Exercise.

Rest between Cluster Set Retition is 10 to around 60 seconds. With load of around 48-62% of 1 Repetiotion Max with Traditional Strength Power is developed. With load of 10-40% of 1 Repetition Max, Speed is developed.

Dr Jonathan Oliver Cluster Set Hypetrophy Training
Oliver research centered around how athlets could increase muscle mass, in season with out decreasing Maxumum Strength, Power and/or Speed.

Oliver research determined that athletes how performed Cluster Set Training Exercise with the right protocol increase muscle mass while maintaining Maximum Strength, Power and/or Speed.

Traditional Hypertrophy Training

This method works for increasing muscle mass. However, it is Hypertropy Training is solely used in a Training Block, there is a decrease in Maximum Strength, Power and/or Speed.



Exercise Training Priorty

A greater training effect for Power and/or Speed is elicited when these movements are performed first in a training program or on a seperate day by themselves.



Slow Eccentrics

This approach increases "Time Under Tension", which is effective for increasing muscle mass.

However, Slow Eccentric develop Slow Twitch Muscle Fiber to a greater degree than Fast Twich Strengh Muscle Fiber.

Maximum Strength development occurs with...

Fast Eccentrics

Performing an Eccenctric Pull Up, Squat, Bench Press, etc. is more effective in developing the Fast Twitch Strength and Power Muscle Fiber when an Eccentric Repetition is performed in 1-2 Seconds.

For more information on this...

Fast and "Super Fast"Ballistic Eccentric Training

Fast and "Super Fast"Ballistic Eccentric Training

Eccentric Training Eccentric Strength Training is one area the many individual lack knowledge in. Most individual perform... Slow Eccentric Movements A Slow Eccentric Movement primarily innervates... 1) Slow Twitch (Endurance) Muscle Fiber' The Slow Twitch (Endurance) Type I Muscle Fiber...

www.strongfirst.com

It is just singles or double max effort, not part of sets to complete, so it not a cluster.

Good point about such exercise should be done first when as fresh as possible though. I was just trying it out and will reverse the order next time.

 

[guardian7]

That was interesting. He was doing singles, but I think he's a long way from max effort, I bet he could do quite a few reps.

What was that bit about the tongue when he was relaxing between reps?

Max power is a better way to think of it. During a session of singles there might be 30 reps or whatever. The point is not to slow down at all by doing multiple reps. I use the same approach with deadlift singles, so I want to concentrate on maximal tension and speed and not slow down to a slow grind.

 

[guardian7]

Fast and "Super Fast"Ballistic Eccentric Training

Fast and "Super Fast"Ballistic Eccentric Training

Eccentric Training Eccentric Strength Training is one area the many individual lack knowledge in. Most individual perform... Slow Eccentric Movements A Slow Eccentric Movement primarily innervates... 1) Slow Twitch (Endurance) Muscle Fiber' The Slow Twitch (Endurance) Type I Muscle Fiber...

www.strongfirst.com

I know Westside and others do speed training but what do you think would be the sweet spot as max percentage for such fast twitch training with a barbell 80%? The difficulty of the pullup especially for heavier guys makes it a medium lift in a way. I wonder how that would transfer to the iron.

 

[Steve Freides]

@guardian7, I know very little of Westside - they do more than singles but with a lower weight, if I recall what I've read correctly. I think 80% singles seems like a reasonable thing to try but you might also try 75 and 70% because they'd let you move faster.

-S-

 

[ShawnM]

Garnage, a combo of garbage and carnage ?

Lol. I hadn’t had coffee yet when I posted it.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I know Westside and others do speed training

Misnomer

Westside "Speed Training" is actually Power Training.

What differentiates Speed vs Power Training is the 1 Repetition Training Percentages performed. This has been addressed in pervious post.

what do you think would be the sweet spot as max percentage for such fast twitch training with a barbell 80%?

1) Super Fast Type II b/x Muscle Fiber are innervated with Speed (10-40% of 1 Repetition Max) and Power (48-62% of 1 Repetition Max).

2) Strength Fast Twitch Type IIa in innervated with heavier loads, around 80% or higher; Strength-Speed in the 80% range.

The Exception To The Percentage Rule

Olympic Movements are Explosive Movement.

Research shows that approximately 70-80% of a 1 Repetition Movement produces the highest Power Output.

Dr Bret Contreras determined that Heavy Kettlebell Swing evoke Power Output that rivals Olympic Movements.

Technique Training In Traditional Strength Movements

80% and higher a 1 Repetition Max is one of the keys to developing Technique.

 

[DocMike]

The only advice I would give on explosive pullups, or any pullups, is to get that lat activation at the start. I'm referring to that reverse shrug movement to keep the humerus head fully in the GH joint. It is so easy to have that head slide up as the body pulls down and then when you do the explosive pullup there is going to be shoulder damage galore. Can't remember if Stu talked about this in the video.

He's a great guy in person. Met him at a Cincinnati seminar 5-6years ago. In person he is exactly like he is in the video. So smart he can explain it to a child.

 

[guardian7]

The only advice I would give on explosive pullups, or any pullups, is to get that lat activation at the start. I'm referring to that reverse shrug movement to keep the humerus head fully in the GH joint. It is so easy to have that head slide up as the body pulls down and then when you do the explosive pullup there is going to be shoulder damage galore. Can't remember if Stu talked about this in the video.

He's a great guy in person. Met him at a Cincinnati seminar 5-6years ago. In person he is exactly like he is in the video. So smart he can explain it to a child.

Yes, he does emphasize that but it is certainly worth repeating. I would add a squeeze the glute cue as well to produce more tension and I think the tactical position with legs together and hollow body is better than the bodybuilder style legs crossed and back position for this.

 

[Boris Bachmann]

I don't know... I saw this a while back and I thought "Well, if you're really heavy, or really bad at pull-ups, then maybe...".

It comes down to goals. With Carroll, McGill is trying to cue maximum activation - Carroll is/was a powerlifter trying to come back from a bad back injury. And for that purpose (powerlifting - a single max effort), then doing pull-ups in that way makes a lot of sense - not for general back and lat development/hypertrophy mind you, but for helping develop tension maximally for a squat, bench, or deadlift they yeah.

On the other hand, for someone who can already do 10+ pullups and is trying to do more, while it'd probably be good for some training blocks, I don't think you'd want to spend the bulk of your time w. these.

 

[Don Fairbanks]

McGill mentioned some bigger guys were getting to 20 + reps by doing 30 x 1 for 6 weeks or so. No mention of number of days per week.

 

[Boris Bachmann]

McGill mentioned some bigger guys were getting to 20 + reps by doing 30 x 1 for 6 weeks or so. No mention of number of days per week.

Umm, full range of motion? No offense to McGill, but I think not.