"Feminized Men" in S&S

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Level 4 Valued Member
That reminds me of a saying we had when I was working as a fitter in a shipyard.

Whenever we struck a loose bolt we'd say
"The limp wristed fitter has struck again"
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Level 8 Valued Member

the increase in men with estrogen dominance in our society
That is the same overseas (in France).

Lack of kettlebell, lack of chopping wood, lack of resilience (or even antifragility), too much comfort...

Kind regards,


Kit Meyer

Level 1 Valued Member
There's nothing new about the "Feminized Men" grievance. In his Teddy Roosevelt's autobiography, he's quoted

"I do not like to see young Christians with shoulders that slope like a champagne bottle." He was a strong advocate to teach boys boxing in the YMCA.


Level 4 Valued Member
It's all well and good to make fun of them but from where I'm viewing my corner of the world it seems like there is strong bias for society to produce "men" like this.

My boys go to a school where almost all the teachers are female & many of their friends have no positive role models in their lives at all. My boys have never had a male teacher and one of my boys is always in trouble for just being a boy.

It's like there is a systematic effort to suppress everything that is male. For the female staff of the school male = aggressive = bad and anything resembling male/aggressive behaviour is punishable and reprehensible.

Seriously some of the times my boy has been in trouble were for the most trivial nonsensical issues that should have been handled much differently. One time he was removed from his male friends and forced to sit with a group of girls as a punishment for play wrestling with his friend at lunch time. All at the hands of female teachers under 28 years old. I soon sorted that out, there was no way I going to let them use humiliation as punishment for something that should never have been punished in the first place.

Then if they navigate the school system well enough to attain good marks and not offend any women they get a chance to go to university where most of the successful male role models are feminised men who've never done a hard days work in their lives.

Throw in a dose of day time television hosted by women and girly men with lipstick (and girly opinions) and blow wave haircuts that are successful and we wonder why boys are turning soft.

What chance do they have ?


Certified Instructor
Watch any garbage network sitcom and all of the mindless commercial breaks.

It's cool to be a goofy submissive dad who can't do anything without permission.

Deleted member 5559

It's funny this came up today; I was just discussing this yesterday. The human body is designed differently for the genders but there has been such a strong movement toward equality that both genders are meeting in the middle rather than each excelling in their natural design. Society wants to be pretty good at everything rather than great at anything.

There is a large incentive in the workplace for nurturing and there is little incentive for toughness. Adam Smith in the "Wealth of Nations" explains value in the form of resources and labor. We have "thought" our way out of using one to obtain the other.

I may have my son have to lift a stone in order to be rewarded with things like the privilege to drive, etc. Not to avoid being soft, but to appreciate the value of the male design and what it can provide to society.

Mark Kidd

Level 5 Valued Member
For the record I am not talking about gay men. I know plenty of strong, guys guys who are also gay. Just wanted that to be clear.

@Tarzan That is a valid concern from my vantage point with regards to education.
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Steve Freides

Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
@Tarzan, google phrases like, "is school for girls?" and there's plenty to read. We had one of those classic experiences with our oldest, who had a borderline birthdates. We took him in for testing to decide if he should start or wait another year, and he did above the level of work necessary for half the test - then got up and walked out of the room.

We asked the people who administered the test if they could tell us what that meant in terms of his being ready to start kindergarten, and then said they weren't allowed to tell us, only evaluate what he'd done on the test, but then they whispered to us, "Kindergarten is an academic experience, you know."

And with that, we kept him out for another year, and we're very glad we did.



Level 6 Valued Member
It's also strange the difference between siblings. My oldest son (10) is a little overweight and actually pretty lazy. He does like to fight with me (by fight I mean muay thai/mma stuff). That's the extent of physical stuff. But, he is smart as hell and creative as well. He loves lego and builds the craziest stuff.
My youngest son (4) is crazy. If I go to shovel snow (which I do wearing minimal clothing because I like the cold) he comes out dressed the same way. I tell him to go and put a hat on. He helps me chop and pile wood. I even bought him his own wheelbarrow. He begs to cut grass. And constantly wants to workout.
I don't push either in either direction, but just provide the tools and experiences and let them choose their path.

J Petersen

Certified Instructor
If you'll pardon my darkness, I only wish this was the worst of it.

By virtue of a long military career and spending my share of time "winning hearts and minds" in some rough neighborhoods, I can attest that there is a much different attitude when it comes to child rearing and approved educational curriculum in far too many places in the world, particularly when it comes to sons. Not likely to ever forget the plaque over the classroom door in one schoolhouse proudly declaring that "within these walls, the martyrs of tomorrow learn."

Contrasting this with western children who are indoctrinated with safe-spaces, micro-aggressions, lazy moral equivalencies, the dogma of violence never having solved anything/nothing is worth fighting for, and that they have nothing to feel but shame from their history... It makes my blood run a bit cold when I contemplate how well this is going to go over when these two cultures play together in the future.


Level 9 Valued Member
Andy Kirkpatrick is a British climber I follow. If you want to find out what tough (and a little bit nutty) is, google this guy. But on topic, he has written some pieces about kids needing a little bit more hazard and danger in their playtime. It's interesting stuff.


Level 8 Valued Member

I think it could be a good idea to explain the triad fragility / robustness / antifragility in school.

Indeed, we always think in term of fragility "I do not do because..." "I do not want because..."

I think that globally, there is a lack of will and motivation.

Kind regard,

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