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burtchellr

burtchellr

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I never had an official coach or trainer, and I taught myself the swing from rkc videos on YouTube and from Pavel's books. Here is a link to my swing. I'd love a good critiquing. The bell is 36kg and all I have to use. Crossfit momentum made me think I was stronger than what I really am.

http://youtu.be/WlQErHm8gNo
 
Hi Robert,

I can usually tell more from a direct side view that includes the feet (and wearing shorts to see exactly what is going on with your knees, but here's what I notice:

You don't appear to be getting your hips back enough. If you look at your hip position when you first set up, your hips are much further back than when you are actually swinging the bell. Hips not back far enough = less glute power. It also makes it easier to let the weight pull you forward.

Arms are more bent at the top than I like to see. Arms should be dead straight at the bottom, and I encourage straight arms throughout. When the arms bend at the top, it isn't necessarily a problem in itself, but it's an unnecessary extra moving part to worry about. If the arms are ALWAYS straight, you never have to worry about whether they are straight when the need to be. Not getting your hip back can actually be related to this -- if you feel like the weight is getting out in front too much, you naturally want to pull it back in with your arms.
 
I can get another video for you in shorts and with a better view.

As for the hips back issue, I always thought that knees bending during the exercise was bad, and the more my hips go back the more they happen to bend. With the arms, your right I almost have to use a little more shoulders than needed to get the bell all the way up, and I know that is wrong.

Thank you so much though for the feedback. Ill keep working on it. I'm currently sitting here doing 10 swings every 15min just to work on my form.
 
Robert,

Knees bending is not a problem and, as you point out, the knees must bend to get the hips back.

You don't want the knees to come FORWARD much. We use "vertical shins" as a cue, even though most people (including Pavel) don't actually keep their shins perfectly vertical.

One common fault is a squatty swing where the hips drop down instead of back and the knees move forward. You have the opposite fault, the "tippy bird" (I believe Brett Jones's phrase) swing where you keep the legs too straight and hinge from the hips, but without moving them back and loading the glutes.

Don't worry about how high the bell goes. Just drive with the hips and let the bell go as high as you hip drive takes it. Trying to get to a certain height beyond this, will lead to pulling with the arms, shrugging the shoulders and hyperextending the lumbar spine.

I also notice that you are off balance quite a bit, with your toes coming up. Try to keep your weight balanced over the whole foot throughout each rep. Your feet should be firmly rooted. We do cue "weight on heels," but IMO this should be considered more of a cue to avoid getting pulled forward than a literal instruction.

Again, take a look at your setup position. This should be what your back swing looks like. But you don't maintain your good setup position when you start to hike the bell back. Instead, your hips move FORWARD as you hike the bell back.
 
Steve,

Thank you so much for the feedback. I'll get started ASAP on focusing on keeping my hike form through out and just working on the pendulum drill to help with the hip posistion. I'll also take another look at enter the kettlebell and start back at square one with the drills Pavel recommends. Seeing that I have the "tippy bird" issue, it would explain why my snatches feel like they are getting weaker. I recorded my snatches earlier, and I do the same thing. As I mentioned, I've done CrossFit and so many people focused on the squat portion of the swing and to break myself of that I focused so hard and so long on not allowing my knees to bend. I guess this would also explain why my deadlift dropped from 385 to 305.

Thank you again, Robert
 
Hi Robert, 3 suggestions, one from Dan John which is to hike the bell right into the groin, your bell is a bit low on the down swing, it also appears you are laboring with your arms and shoulders to get the bell up higher on the upswing - no need - as mentioned, just use the hip thrust to lift the bell.  Last thing, shut that door so your pooch doesn't take a ball of iron into the skull.
 
Thank you for those tips! I managed my budget for the month and just ordered a smaller kettlebell to allow me to actually learn proper mechanics. I'm also working on trying to get to a strong first kettlebell course before I leave for basic so Ivan get some proper coaching and hands on experience learning from an actual person vs internet videos. Although, these tips have been helping me greatly.
 
Robert,

One other thing on your last video: don't initiate your first rep from that deadlift position. Set up like you did in the earlier video, with the bell on the floor in front of you, and hike it back  into the first rep.

Again, your set up position is good. You want to maintain that position when you hike the bell back the first time, and hit that position on each back swing.

The deadlift is good for patterning the proper hinge movement (and also for practicing rooting the feet), but I like it much better as a separate drill. Dan John's goat belly swing  is another great drill for this (see his article on T-Nation called "The Metabolic Swing").

 
 
Try some power-swings.  Swing from the hike position, park it, swing it again from the hike position, and so on.  It made a big difference in my swing because you are no longer relying on as much momentum to get the bell going in the right path.  I think a lot about where I want the bell to go and then adjust all the different body elements to get to that path   It may of been an a#@-backwards way to learn how to swing but I am totally self-taught.    I believe you need more hip extension not just snap.  The snap will come but it will never be what if can be if you don't fully extend you hips forward on the swing.   Squeeze the glutes hard at the top and hold it until you engage the backswing.     Every person here is giving you great advice.
 
Very very true. This is all fantastic information, very helpful, and I greatly appreciate it. I got to go into the gym this morning and worked with a 20kg bell. I never allowed the bell to come above my waste and focused as hard as I could to drive the hips back and "pinch" the coin as I drove them forward. I really noticed a huge increase in power output combining all these things together.
 
Thank you Christine. I've been working on the hiking position with a start stop start stop pattern to work on just getting the mechanics of that movement down. Its actually tough since Ive taught myself how to do it wrong for the last year. I'm looking forward to the next course in TX. I plan on being there just to get some hands on training.
 
http://youtu.be/paLVvM_QJEI

I got a new bell the other day and I've been working on PM and my swing form more strictly.
 
Watch going into back extension at the top and watch the load on the neck as it is cranking back into "hyperextension/hinge" at the bottome
 
Robert, the still picture that comes up before you click to start the video shows your torso almost parallel with the floor.  Try thinking of your swing form goal as having your torso angle match your shin angle.  In other words, try to sit back with a relatively upright posture, not with your chest facing the floor.  Of course, you may not allow your knees to shoot forward when you do this.

-S-
 
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