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Old Forum Front/Back muscle imbalance question

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Jeanmid

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I have read several stories of bodybuilders neglecting proper back development and focusing only on bench pressing getting shoulder problems; I was wondering if the opposite is also true (as I've never heard about it), that is if I were to focus mostly on swings, pull ups, deadlifts would it also lead to shoulder pain or other problems?

Thanks for any/all info on this topic.

 

Jean
 
I don't think bodybuilders get shoulder problems from neglecting proper back development.  The bench press is an excellent exercise for many goals, not just bodybuilding - it's poor technique that leads to injuries, and the higher rep range used by some bodybuilders can lead to sloppy technique.

About the only thing I've found bad about focusing on swings, pullups, and deadlifts is my deadlift is by far the strongest of my three powerlifts - and I don't know that one can call that bad, anyway.

-S-
 
Not as likely, but still possible.

For example, conventional wisdom regarding healthy shoulders is 'don't bench, press overhead, and balance presses with pulls'. Well, I never bench, and basically only press overhead, but have massive internal rotation of my shoulders from my pullup obsession over the past 6 years or so. I've started doing regular rotator cuff work and shoulder mobility stuff and it's helping a great deal.

I also know of someone who jacked up his volume on swings/DL so much that he started having hip issues because his hip flexors were super weak in comparison to his overdeveloped posterior chain.

So the takeaway--have balance in your own training, and keep an eye out for potential issues. It is possible to have too much of a good thing, even if the 'thing' is as good as a squat, swing, deadlift, pullup, or overhead press; and you use it to the exclusion of certain other movements. My 0.02--pursue movements that allow you to move big weights efficiently and pain free, and use correctives and other general exercises to stay balanced.
 
^ And as Steve said, there's no such thing as a (real) bodybuilder who neglects back training. The kids you see on the bench and preacher curl all day are no more bodybuilders than the fat guy struggling to half squat 405 is a powerlifter.
 
Thanks, that's a really good article. And sorry if I offended anyone using the term bodybuilder, I basically meant someone who 'works out' focusing mostly on the pressing movements.

Just to clarify, I don't intend to create an unbalanced program, just wanted to know the risk or maybe symptoms of using a program focused more on the back then the front.
 
Jean D, no apology necessary and no offense taken - ask your questions freely and we will all do our best to answer in ways that we hope will help you.

Aris, there is much to be said for the idea of owning a particular movement.  To own a movement means you can do it whenever you wish, not in a max-effort way but with a light to moderate level of resistance.  I think it makes sense for everyone to own the bench press.  It's far from my favorite lift, but I cycle it in and out of my training - I probably train it 3 to 6 months in a typical year.  The 2-dumbbell bench press, in particular, can give you an excellent stretch as well as build strength.

The bodyweight pistol is another movement I think everyone should own - if you own it, you know your hip flexors are functioning as they should.

The bodybuilder style pullup is yet another movement I think shows things if you can't do it.  I fall into that category right now - I can't touch my chest to the bar in a widegrip, big chest style of  pullup, that's because I lack of both mobility and strength in some areas - and I intend to fix it.

-S-
 
Smart thread!

I think what Jean is getting at is the question of internally rotated shoulders/warrior posture versus externally rotated shoulders/proud chest.

A chiropractor buddy of mine explained it to me.  As fetuses we start out with "C" shaped spines.  Unfortunately by the time we die most of us end up in that same position.  Let's hope that at some point as adults we manage to stand up straight and utilize our design as bipeds.  Thank God or thank Darwin, your choice.

The observable fact is that almost everybody has a little or a lot too much caved-in shoulders.  It can happen from being a pullup master like Aris, but it also happens from keyboards, or from Freudian shame.

It's NOT a simple question of balancing pushes with pulls, but of hollow position/proud chest:

hollow:

dips, bench, pullups, bicycles, computers

proud:

stretching dumbbell or incline bench, pullovers, rows, deadlifts with forward lockout

It also depends what you want.  I had been obsessed with bench and pullups but now have the more modest goal of  standing up straight.
 
Jean D, it can't be done. You'll have problems with elbows also.

Have you ever noticed how much you have to contract the chest for a heavy dead? Why?
 
I was just about to ask what was good for the hip flexors but Steve pointed out pistols. Guys like Steve, Jason G. and many others make this the best forum hands down in the planet! Almost every thread I click on, I learn something. Thank you Strongfirst ladies and gentlemen!
 
From Steve F

"Aris, there is much to be said for the idea of owning a particular movement.  To own a movement means you can do it whenever you wish, not in a max-effort way but with a light to moderate level of resistance.  I think it makes sense for everyone to own the bench press.  It’s far from my favorite lift, but I cycle it in and out of my training – I probably train it 3 to 6 months in a typical year.  The 2-dumbbell bench press, in particular, can give you an excellent stretch as well as build strength.

The bodyweight pistol is another movement I think everyone should own – if you own it, you know your hip flexors are functioning as they should."

 

I've read this a couple of times and it strikes me how similar I think to Steve F at so many things and how much I can agree with this. From cycling in benching to the pistol for hipflexor functionality!

 

From Matt H

"hollow:

dips, bench, pullups, bicycles, computers"

Do you bench in the hollowposition?!
 
There is a common and well-meaning piece of advice:  balance your pushing with pulling.  Unfortunately it's more complicated than that and we really mean the goal is square shoulders.  Many anatomists have agreed on this, Rolf and Egoscue to name two.  Unfortunately both inactivity and most sports (swimming, gymnastics, karate, GS) tend to cause caved-in shoulders.  Once in a while I see spines that are too straight, but like Omar wrote, I can't think of ever seeing shoulders that were too square.

Rickard -- my personal benching history is embarrassing.  I used to be one of those guys Jean was asking about; big pecs and internally rotated shoulders.  I would keep my shoulders retracted and chest out, but arch my butt in the air so the movement was like a decline bench.
 
Matt - I think there comes a time in every persons life when they have to admit they stank at lifts when they started them. I don't think anyone starts with great technique. It is however not a reason to keep stinking.
 
i think that it's not strictly matter of  BPor so. problem is bad body position. shoulder blades are too forward. it could lead to some back pain. shoulder pain? don't know. but true is that too much presses without compensation exercises (including back exercises) or just solid  stretching could caused this. reverse problem shouldn't grow up especially because "shoulder packing" is natural and "easier way" of body behaviour but reverse tendency not but it is appriciate. so i think that no need to be afraid. and there could be also some psychological or other reasons. this boxer hollow position is defensive position, one of basic patterns, which people use in critical situations and longterm stress could force them to do too.   and e.g. traditional medicine says that this body position signalizes weak lung :)
 
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