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Kettlebell Get your grip ... great article and a question

Bauer

Level 7 Valued Member
First of all, everyone interested in overhead KB work should read this article by @Brett Jones

@Steve Freides : I have asked a question in the comments below the article, but somehow the comments haven't been processed yet (or my comment was discarded :) ).

Anyway, I will ask it again here, hoping that Brett or @Fabio Zonin can shed some light on this.

Given that Fabio exhibits radial deviation - does the "ulnar deviation" cue for the overhead lockout from VICTORIOUS! still apply to everyone?
Asked differently: Should the cue be different for people with a neutral, ulnar deviated, or radial deviated wrists?
 
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Brett Jones

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Bauer

Yes and no—IMO—The intention of ulnar deviation cue may still help with lockout but there should not be any movement (of the wrist/bell) in that direction during the press.
 

Steve Freides

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does the "ulnar deviation" cue for the overhead lockout from VICTORIOUS! still apply to everyone?
I thought that was the point of Brett's article, that Fabio's pressing tip will work for some people but not for everyone. And that may even go so far as to be different from one hand to the other for some people - I find thinking about it absolutely helps my left side but it doesn't seem to make a difference for my right. I am right-handed and generally have more trouble locking out on my left side than my right, so perhaps that's part of my particular issue. It even helps make my left side 1h swings a little less T-rex like.

JMO, YMMV.

-S-
 

Bauer

Level 7 Valued Member
I thought that was the point of Brett's article, that Fabio's pressing tip will work for some people but not for everyone. And that may even go so far as to be different from one hand to the other for some people - I find thinking about it absolutely helps my left side but it doesn't seem to make a difference for my right. I am right-handed and generally have more trouble locking out on my left side than my right, so perhaps that's part of my particular issue. It even helps make my left side 1h swings a little less T-rex like.

JMO, YMMV.

-S-
While the article focuses on the grip position, it doesn't address the lockout position.

Thanks for your thoughts.
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
The biggest "aha" moment I had for pressing double KBs was to change my thoracic posture to be closer to the one I use for barbell overhead press.

I haven't tried it with single KB press yet, though, might have to experiment.
 

John K

Level 7 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
I don't want to sound stupid, but I really didn't understand the article, or how to tell what kind of deviant I am. I've read the article 5 times, and jumped around it multiple other times, and it still just gets muddled in my brain.

The blue lines start at the base of the thumb and cut straight across. The close to the base of the pinky indicates degree of tilt? Very close = ulnar, very far = radial, somewhere in between = neutral? What do the red lines indicate?

Everytime I start thinking through it I "figure out" I'm a different kind of deviant.

I made a video of me opening and closing my hand. Maybe someone can explain to me what I have and why and it'll make more sense?

I can't embed it but here is the link: Hand Deviation
 

Brett Jones

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John K

You look more ulnar deviated (Like my hand) to me.

The blue line shows where the thumb lines up across the hand—your thumb also appears to line up higher across the palm.

The red line shows the relative tilt of the hand/wrist (and where the KB handle would be to be parallel to the callouses.

Does that help?
 

Pete L

Level 5 Valued Member
The biggest "aha" moment I had for pressing double KBs was to change my thoracic posture to be closer to the one I use for barbell overhead press.

I haven't tried it with single KB press yet, though, might have to experiment.
By this, do you mean with a slight forward lean to the vertical such that your head is in front of your hands? Thanks
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
By this, do you mean with a slight forward lean to the vertical such that your head is in front of your hands? Thanks

No, I mean using thoracic extension to have a 'proud chest' in the rack position, as one does with a barbell overhead press.

Yuri-Vasov-Rack-Position.jpg
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
I don't want to sound stupid, but I really didn't understand the article, or how to tell what kind of deviant I am. I've read the article 5 times, and jumped around it multiple other times, and it still just gets muddled in my brain.

The blue lines start at the base of the thumb and cut straight across. The close to the base of the pinky indicates degree of tilt? Very close = ulnar, very far = radial, somewhere in between = neutral? What do the red lines indicate?

Everytime I start thinking through it I "figure out" I'm a different kind of deviant.

I made a video of me opening and closing my hand. Maybe someone can explain to me what I have and why and it'll make more sense?

I can't embed it but here is the link: Hand Deviation

Don't feel bad, I had to re-read it several times, too, to try to figure it out and understand what I'm supposed to be looking for.

I know my hands don't look like Brett's, but they seem to be in between Fabio's and Dr. Kathy's.
 

Bauer

Level 7 Valued Member
No, I mean using thoracic extension to have a 'proud chest' in the rack position, as one does with a barbell overhead press.

Yuri-Vasov-Rack-Position.jpg
I remember Fabio Zonin and Geoff Neupert talking about this, too, IIRC combined with looking up before the lockout.At least for more advanced trainees. I guess the challenge is of opening up the t-spine with out overextending the lower back.
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
I remember Fabio Zonin and Geoff Neupert talking about this, too, IIRC combined with looking up before the lockout.At least for more advanced trainees. I guess the challenge is of opening up the t-spine with out overextending the lower back.

Being able to do a proper barbell front squat with full grip in the rack and full squat depth is probably a good screen.
 

John K

Level 7 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
John K

You look more ulnar deviated (Like my hand) to me.

The blue line shows where the thumb lines up across the hand—your thumb also appears to line up higher across the palm.

The red line shows the relative tilt of the hand/wrist (and where the KB handle would be to be parallel to the callouses.

Does that help?
Thanks for weighing in Brett. It starts helping. How do I know where to base the red line off of? I did a couple hand openings with my fingers closed and I could start seeing more ulnar deviation like yours, but I think I'm basing that off of the index finger, and I think that is what was throwing off me off before - I was looking at if the index finger and if it pointed to the thumb side, straight up, or to the pinky side ... and maybe that was just a red herring.
 

Pete L

Level 5 Valued Member
That would be my best guess.
Somewhere between neutral and ulnar, but not as extreme as Brett Jones.
 

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Brett Jones

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John K

Draw the red line along the callouses as Pete has done in the picture above.

you are slightly ulnar deviated so I would try a MP grip toward the thumb side of the handle and angled along the callouses.
 

LLT

Level 5 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
Interestingly I found out that my left hand is more ulnar deviant than my right hand! I will experiment with a different grip on my left and see how it feels! Great article!
 

Steve Freides

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I guess the challenge is of opening up the t-spine with out overextending the lower back.
Yes.

For the kettlebell military press, one generally sees two "grooves," those who press straight up and those who "open the door" (meaning the elbow moves more out to the side than the straight up groove). If your groove is what most of us do, with the elbow moving out to the side a bit, we generally advice maintaining a neutral spinal posture; if you press straight up to the front, then the movement is a bit more like a barbell military press and some thoracic extension would seem to make sense. Personally, I can only execute the straight-up groove with a light weight, and it doesn't feel like to me like what most people will do once the weight gets heavy.

-S-
 

renegadenate

Level 6 Valued Member
Don't feel bad, I had to re-read it several times, too, to try to figure it out and understand what I'm supposed to be looking for.

I know my hands don't look like Brett's, but they seem to be in between Fabio's and Dr. Kathy's.
It still makes no sense to me, and I can't quite figure out which deviation I have based on the photos.

I'll continue to press the way I've been pressing. It works! :D
 
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