Kettlebell Get your grip ... great article and a question

[Bauer]

First of all, everyone interested in overhead KB work should read this article by @Brett Jones

Optimizing the Kettlebell Military Press Grip—For You | StrongFirst

We all know, hopefully, that learning is an ongoing process that is never complete. After 20 years of kettlebell training, we continue to learn, and our most recent lesson might just help a lot of you with your military press goals.

www.strongfirst.com

@Steve Freides : I have asked a question in the comments below the article, but somehow the comments haven't been processed yet (or my comment was discarded ).

Anyway, I will ask it again here, hoping that Brett or @Fabio Zonin can shed some light on this.

Given that Fabio exhibits radial deviation - does the "ulnar deviation" cue for the overhead lockout from VICTORIOUS! still apply to everyone?
Asked differently: Should the cue be different for people with a neutral, ulnar deviated, or radial deviated wrists?

 

[Steve Freides]

@Bauer, your comment on the article is now published there.

-S-

 

[Brett Jones]

Bauer

Yes and no—IMO—The intention of ulnar deviation cue may still help with lockout but there should not be any movement (of the wrist/bell) in that direction during the press.

 

[Steve Freides]

does the "ulnar deviation" cue for the overhead lockout from VICTORIOUS! still apply to everyone?

I thought that was the point of Brett's article, that Fabio's pressing tip will work for some people but not for everyone. And that may even go so far as to be different from one hand to the other for some people - I find thinking about it absolutely helps my left side but it doesn't seem to make a difference for my right. I am right-handed and generally have more trouble locking out on my left side than my right, so perhaps that's part of my particular issue. It even helps make my left side 1h swings a little less T-rex like.

JMO, YMMV.

-S-

 

[Bauer]

I thought that was the point of Brett's article, that Fabio's pressing tip will work for some people but not for everyone. And that may even go so far as to be different from one hand to the other for some people - I find thinking about it absolutely helps my left side but it doesn't seem to make a difference for my right. I am right-handed and generally have more trouble locking out on my left side than my right, so perhaps that's part of my particular issue. It even helps make my left side 1h swings a little less T-rex like.

JMO, YMMV.

-S-

While the article focuses on the grip position, it doesn't address the lockout position.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Bauer]

Bauer

Yes and no—IMO—The intention of ulnar deviation cue may still help with lockout but there should not be any movement (of the wrist/bell) in that direction during the press.

Thanks, that is helpful

 

[watchnerd]

The biggest "aha" moment I had for pressing double KBs was to change my thoracic posture to be closer to the one I use for barbell overhead press.

I haven't tried it with single KB press yet, though, might have to experiment.

 

[John K]

I don't want to sound stupid, but I really didn't understand the article, or how to tell what kind of deviant I am. I've read the article 5 times, and jumped around it multiple other times, and it still just gets muddled in my brain.

The blue lines start at the base of the thumb and cut straight across. The close to the base of the pinky indicates degree of tilt? Very close = ulnar, very far = radial, somewhere in between = neutral? What do the red lines indicate?

Everytime I start thinking through it I "figure out" I'm a different kind of deviant.

I made a video of me opening and closing my hand. Maybe someone can explain to me what I have and why and it'll make more sense?

I can't embed it but here is the link: Hand Deviation

 

[Brett Jones]

John K

You look more ulnar deviated (Like my hand) to me.

The blue line shows where the thumb lines up across the hand—your thumb also appears to line up higher across the palm.

The red line shows the relative tilt of the hand/wrist (and where the KB handle would be to be parallel to the callouses.

Does that help?

 

[Pete L]

The biggest "aha" moment I had for pressing double KBs was to change my thoracic posture to be closer to the one I use for barbell overhead press.

I haven't tried it with single KB press yet, though, might have to experiment.

By this, do you mean with a slight forward lean to the vertical such that your head is in front of your hands? Thanks

 

[watchnerd]

By this, do you mean with a slight forward lean to the vertical such that your head is in front of your hands? Thanks

No, I mean using thoracic extension to have a 'proud chest' in the rack position, as one does with a barbell overhead press.

 

[watchnerd]

I don't want to sound stupid, but I really didn't understand the article, or how to tell what kind of deviant I am. I've read the article 5 times, and jumped around it multiple other times, and it still just gets muddled in my brain.

The blue lines start at the base of the thumb and cut straight across. The close to the base of the pinky indicates degree of tilt? Very close = ulnar, very far = radial, somewhere in between = neutral? What do the red lines indicate?

Everytime I start thinking through it I "figure out" I'm a different kind of deviant.

I made a video of me opening and closing my hand. Maybe someone can explain to me what I have and why and it'll make more sense?

I can't embed it but here is the link: Hand Deviation

Don't feel bad, I had to re-read it several times, too, to try to figure it out and understand what I'm supposed to be looking for.

I know my hands don't look like Brett's, but they seem to be in between Fabio's and Dr. Kathy's.

 

[Bauer]

No, I mean using thoracic extension to have a 'proud chest' in the rack position, as one does with a barbell overhead press.

I remember Fabio Zonin and Geoff Neupert talking about this, too, IIRC combined with looking up before the lockout.At least for more advanced trainees. I guess the challenge is of opening up the t-spine with out overextending the lower back.

 

[watchnerd]

I remember Fabio Zonin and Geoff Neupert talking about this, too, IIRC combined with looking up before the lockout.At least for more advanced trainees. I guess the challenge is of opening up the t-spine with out overextending the lower back.

Being able to do a proper barbell front squat with full grip in the rack and full squat depth is probably a good screen.

 

[John K]

John K

You look more ulnar deviated (Like my hand) to me.

The blue line shows where the thumb lines up across the hand—your thumb also appears to line up higher across the palm.

The red line shows the relative tilt of the hand/wrist (and where the KB handle would be to be parallel to the callouses.

Does that help?

Thanks for weighing in Brett. It starts helping. How do I know where to base the red line off of? I did a couple hand openings with my fingers closed and I could start seeing more ulnar deviation like yours, but I think I'm basing that off of the index finger, and I think that is what was throwing off me off before - I was looking at if the index finger and if it pointed to the thumb side, straight up, or to the pinky side ... and maybe that was just a red herring.

 

[Pete L]

That would be my best guess.
Somewhere between neutral and ulnar, but not as extreme as Brett Jones.

 

[Brett Jones]

John K

Draw the red line along the callouses as Pete has done in the picture above.

you are slightly ulnar deviated so I would try a MP grip toward the thumb side of the handle and angled along the callouses.

 

[LLT]

Interestingly I found out that my left hand is more ulnar deviant than my right hand! I will experiment with a different grip on my left and see how it feels! Great article!

 

[Steve Freides]

I guess the challenge is of opening up the t-spine with out overextending the lower back.

Yes.

For the kettlebell military press, one generally sees two "grooves," those who press straight up and those who "open the door" (meaning the elbow moves more out to the side than the straight up groove). If your groove is what most of us do, with the elbow moving out to the side a bit, we generally advice maintaining a neutral spinal posture; if you press straight up to the front, then the movement is a bit more like a barbell military press and some thoracic extension would seem to make sense. Personally, I can only execute the straight-up groove with a light weight, and it doesn't feel like to me like what most people will do once the weight gets heavy.

-S-

 

[renegadenate]

Don't feel bad, I had to re-read it several times, too, to try to figure it out and understand what I'm supposed to be looking for.

I know my hands don't look like Brett's, but they seem to be in between Fabio's and Dr. Kathy's.

It still makes no sense to me, and I can't quite figure out which deviation I have based on the photos.

I'll continue to press the way I've been pressing. It works!