Kettlebell goblet squats for cardio and getting back into shape

[sammh]

I know that swings are the preferred tool for this. However they aggravate my herniated discs.

Goblet squats don't hurt me the same way.

So how would one go about using/programing goblet squats as an exercise for cardio and getting back into shape?

Would you program them the same way as swings?

 

[Marc]

Well, maybe not as much volume as swings but I think goblet squats make for a great conditioning tool. The cool thing about goblet squats is that you can use if for conditioning aswell as for strength/muscle building.

Combining goblets with pushups seems to be a good option. Maybe somethi g like:

1a. Goblet squat 2-3-5-3-2
1b. Pushup 2-3-5-3-2

Do as many rounds as possible with stellar form in 10-30mins.

Maybe if swings are not an option for you, you could try high rep deadlifts with a single bell

 

[sammh]

Well, maybe not as much volume as swings but I think goblet squats make for a great conditioning tool. The cool thing about goblet squats is that you can use if for conditioning aswell as for strength/muscle building.

Combining goblets with pushups seems to be a good option. Maybe somethi g like:

1a. Goblet squat 2-3-5-3-2
1b. Pushup 2-3-5-3-2

Do as many rounds as possible with stellar form in 10-30mins.

Maybe if swings are not an option for you, you could try high rep deadlifts with a single bell

Those are great suggestions. Thank you

 

[Dasho]

The Tabata Method, Perfected | T Nation

I know that people have been pretty fast and loose with the "Tabata" protocol, but Dan John actually recommends goblet squats as one good method of doing it.

 

[Snowman]

Marty Gallagher wrote an article you might be interested in here.
Couple that with some kind of press and pull up and you're all set.

As far as cardio goes, I don't know if it's a good first priority for someone getting back into shape. The program in the article is a mix between strength and strength endurance anyways. My advice would be to build strength and enjoy the dramatic increase in work capacity that comes with it. Once you're body is strong, then add the cardio stuff.

Even if you go another route, there is one thing that you need to be careful of. In your case, with herniated discs (lumbar, I assume?), you have to be very careful about "butt winking." That is, letting your lower back go from neutral to flexion at the bottom of the squat. I can almost guarantee this will aggravate your discs. One reason I suggest working of strength first is that it's very difficult to maintain a tight, neutral spine while you're fatigued.

I suppose you could do some A+A style squats at the end of your workout for some extra conditioning. While not as good as swings or snatches, that's probably the safest way to develop conditioning with squats for someone with a back injury.

 

[Jan]

I know that swings are the preferred tool for this. However they aggravate my herniated discs.

Goblet squats don't hurt me the same way.

So how would one go about using/programing goblet squats as an exercise for cardio and getting back into shape?

Would you program them the same way as swings?

Welcome to the forum
Did you have your swing form checked out by an SFG instructor? To my opinion, swings should not hurt the back. Actually, I have found them to be curative to lower back issues. Just my 2cents.

 

[Sauli]

@sammh have you tried cleans? Maybe cleans and single arm front squats? Clean may be better for bad back... (IMO)
Perhaps you should put video about your swings If they don’t hurt too much or meet quality instructor.

 

[Deleted member 5559]

+1 @Jan
I've read about airborne guys with bad knees and backs using swings to fix them back up.

Alternatively, what about more fast walking for the cardio?

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

As mentioned above, herniated discs can heal. Most doctors will probably tell you they can't, but if you resolve the swelling and inflammation and don't piss them off for awhile you might be surprised. Perhaps never as forgiving as they were before but you can likely get your back so that as long as your form is right (yup FSM, Egoscue) you will be able to do pretty much anything.

Danny Sawaya (Tucson based SF TL, FSM, CSCS, and I think RKC) really damaged his back severely powerlifting in his 20's and has come back to hit many PR's. Great guy and excellent coach as well...

About - Danny Sawaya

"Personally, I have experienced some of my best athletic accomplishments in my late 30’s and early 40s after struggling with a horrible back injury through most of my 20’s and early 30’s. I have competed in powerlifting and hit some of my biggest lifts at 40. I have also been able to switch gears as an adult athlete to compete in multiple half marathons, triathlons, and even a 70.3 Ironman. It is amazing what the body can do if you train appropriately and focus on the right things."

And he is still powerlifting in addition to the run/bike/swim endurance training.​

 

[North Coast Miller]

For cardio and to get into some conditioning I'd go with Amosov squats over goblet squats to start, esp if you have disk issues that need to be approached with care.

I would not program them the same as swings. These would be done by rounds, not reps or sets.

 

[Maine-ah KB]

Litvinov by Dan John is front squats and sprinting. you could use do Heavy Goblet Squats with sprints The Litvinov Workout | T Nation

 

[sammh]

For cardio and to get into some conditioning I'd go with Amosov squats over goblet squats to start, esp if you have disk issues that need to be approached with care.

I would not program them the same as swings. These would be done by rounds, not reps or sets.

Thank you for posting this.
I'm going to start with these to rehab and ease back into things.

 

[Pinkninja]

For cardio and to get into some conditioning I'd go with Amosov squats over goblet squats to start, esp if you have disk issues that need to be approached with care.

I would not program them the same as swings. These would be done by rounds, not reps or sets.

Yep I still do squats with my poolfence...it helps me remember to keep my back straight. I mix it up sometimes by only using my finger tips to hang on to the fence and I now also use a weight plate in a back pack while squatting with the rail.

 

[Norcoaster]

Marty Gallagher wrote an article you might be interested in here.
Couple that with some kind of press and pull up and you're all set.

As far as cardio goes, I don't know if it's a good first priority for someone getting back into shape. The program in the article is a mix between strength and strength endurance anyways. My advice would be to build strength and enjoy the dramatic increase in work capacity that comes with it. Once you're body is strong, then add the cardio stuff.

Even if you go another route, there is one thing that you need to be careful of. In your case, with herniated discs (lumbar, I assume?), you have to be very careful about "butt winking." That is, letting your lower back go from neutral to flexion at the bottom of the squat. I can almost guarantee this will aggravate your discs. One reason I suggest working of strength first is that it's very difficult to maintain a tight, neutral spine while you're fatigued.

I suppose you could do some A+A style squats at the end of your workout for some extra conditioning. While not as good as swings or snatches, that's probably the safest way to develop conditioning with squats for someone with a back injury.

Great article from Marty Gallagher, thanks for that link.

 

[Oscar]

From Marty Gallagher'so article:

"Stance: the first step in learning how to squat is “playing with” the squat stance width. The goal is to find a width that allows the squatter (you) to descend and ascend while adhering to our technical ideal: we seek to squat with vertical shins and a vertical torso, ideally only the femurs move as we rise and fall; moving with great deliberation and precision over an exaggerated range-of-motion"

I don't get this. If the shins are vertical and the torso is vertical, I fall on my butt. No way to escape this.

I see three possibilities with squats:

- vertical shins and inclined torso.
- inclined shins and vertical torso like a high bar back squat with weightlifting shoes)
- everything in between

I don't understand how one can keep a vertical torso and vertical shins. Maybe with an extremely wide stance?

 

[Kettlebelephant]

I don't understand how one can keep a vertical torso and vertical shins. Maybe with an extremely wide stance?

It's most likely just used a cue.
You'd need to be able to do a full side-split and then angle the shins at 90° to truly achieve vertical shins and torso.
Here's a pic to show what I mean.

 

[Shahaf Levin]

Litvinov by Dan John is front squats and sprinting. you could use do Heavy Goblet Squats with sprints The Litvinov Workout | T Nation

I am not sure I would sprint a person that can't swing without pain...

 

[Maine-ah KB]

@Shahaf Levin you have a valid point. If sprints hurt you shouldn't do it, other hand sometimes if they don't I would go for it.

 

[Shahaf Levin]

@Shahaf Levin you have a valid point. If sprints hurt you shouldn't do it, other hand sometimes if they don't I would go for it.

I know that what I am about say may not be valid to the specific case in hand, but the following is why I would avoid sprinting until swing is cleared from pain.

I suspect that if one can't swing without pain he would not be able to sprint without compensation, even if there is no pain when sprinting. Sprint is definitely more complex than a swing, therefore it gives more opportunities for compensation that "hides" the painful pattern, that way ingraining dysfunction. Sprint is very violent movement which introduces high stress to the body, resulting in high levels of adaptation. Thus said dysfunction will be ingrained deeply and worsen the situation.

 

[Maine-ah KB]

@Shahaf Levin
thats a perspective I never really thought of. my general rule of thumb is ''well if it doesn't hurt its a GO!!!!!" maybe its my inner meathead. I didn't really think of connected dysfunctions worsening the situation. I've been lucky and haven't really banged myself up much, I recently slightly strained my shoulder so rested it by doing floor presses instead of OHP, same logic. my shoulder has been improving so in this case it seems to be working but its something for me to consider in the future for when i get hurt (hopefully it won't happen in a while and it will be as mild as this strain)