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Kettlebell Greasing the groove with S&S

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lais817

lais817

Level 7 Valued Member
Hi all, after struggling to keep up my consistency with S&S since I've returned to work this month, I've taken the step of bringing my 16kg bell into work for me with the intention of GTG S&S. Please excuse the long winded post.

TLDR: What I am wondering is, for power and strength development using a GTG approach with swings and getups, what would be a good daily volume / set and rep scheme to help me continue towards Simple, and should I use the 16kg or the 24kg? I intend on doing full S&S sessions on my days off as I have been.

Now, I know this is not Simple and Sinister as written, but as I work 12hr shifts with a 30 Min commute each way, by the time I get home and spend some time with the wife and kids it erodes both the time I have to train, and the motivation to do so. What I do hope to achieve though, is getting some of the benefits of the program, namely the power production in the swings and strength/technique gains in the getup. I understand I miss out on the conditioning component, I might be able to fit in 10 sets of 2HS after work, see how I go.

I'm after some feedback on my proposed loading / rep schemes if people will indulge me.

A bit of background, I am about 30 workouts into S&S, over the course of around 1.5 months. I am starting to work the 24kg into my TGU, about to start introducing it for 2 sets of the 5. As for swings, I am happy swinging the 24kg for 4 sets of the 10 with 2HS, I've always had a lack of confidence/ability with the 1HS, so I'm working on using the 16kg for all sets of 10 with those.

Today I've been doing 4 sets of swings @16kg, followed by 2/2 TGU with a press in the standing position @16kg, every 1.5-2 hours or so. I know myself and I know that I'm likely to bite off more than I can chew and burn out, so I've held off on the 24kg for now, but I am wondering if I'd see more of the benefits I'm after by using the 24kg for all reps, even if it means I do 2HS with it instead of 1HS.
 
*Update*

So I'm 8 hrs into a shift, and I've done 16 sets of swings and 8 sets L/R of TGU + press in 4 sets of 4 swings & 2/2 TGU+. Feeling it much more than I'd imagined. Might have to wind it back to 2 swings and 1/1 TGU+ in future days.
 
My instinct would be to keep the daily/weekly volume the same as what is written in the program, but be *slightly* more aggressive about transitioning up to the heavier weight, since you are benefitting from very long recovery periods. This is assuming your job is not too taxing physically.
Edit: I think you’re on the right track with listening to your body on the volume per mini session. Increasing that volume could be a variable that you use for progression later.
 
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tomstranger said:
My instinct would be to keep the daily/weekly volume the same as what is written in the program, but be *slightly* more aggressive about transitioning up to the heavier weight, since you are benefitting from very long recovery periods. This is assuming your job is not too taxing physically.
Edit: I think you’re on the right track with listening to your body on the volume per mini session. Increasing that volume could be a variable that you use for progression later.
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I think I might follow that advice re keeping the volume close to a standard S&S session.

My job can be physically demanding at times, but usually just a fair amount of alternating sitting and walking. Each mini session takes me 10-15 minutes including taking boots on/off etc.
 
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lais817 said:
Hi all, after struggling to keep up my consistency with S&S since I've returned to work this month, I've taken the step of bringing my 16kg bell into work for me with the intention of GTG S&S. Please excuse the long winded post.

TLDR: What I am wondering is, for power and strength development using a GTG approach with swings and getups, what would be a good daily volume / set and rep scheme to help me continue towards Simple, and should I use the 16kg or the 24kg? I intend on doing full S&S sessions on my days off as I have been.

Now, I know this is not Simple and Sinister as written, but as I work 12hr shifts with a 30 Min commute each way, by the time I get home and spend some time with the wife and kids it erodes both the time I have to train, and the motivation to do so. What I do hope to achieve though, is getting some of the benefits of the program, namely the power production in the swings and strength/technique gains in the getup. I understand I miss out on the conditioning component, I might be able to fit in 10 sets of 2HS after work, see how I go.

I'm after some feedback on my proposed loading / rep schemes if people will indulge me.

A bit of background, I am about 30 workouts into S&S, over the course of around 1.5 months. I am starting to work the 24kg into my TGU, about to start introducing it for 2 sets of the 5. As for swings, I am happy swinging the 24kg for 4 sets of the 10 with 2HS, I've always had a lack of confidence/ability with the 1HS, so I'm working on using the 16kg for all sets of 10 with those.

Today I've been doing 4 sets of swings @16kg, followed by 2/2 TGU with a press in the standing position @16kg, every 1.5-2 hours or so. I know myself and I know that I'm likely to bite off more than I can chew and burn out, so I've held off on the 24kg for now, but I am wondering if I'd see more of the benefits I'm after by using the 24kg for all reps, even if it means I do 2HS with it instead of 1HS.
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Do the heavier bell x 2hand on your days off when you have more time. And definitely do less days a week as the bell gets heavier. It’s also good to wave the bell weight, if you’re busy, use the 16, if you feel great, the 24. If you consistently get reps in over the week, you’ll progress. I do 2 x 12hr days then 2x12hr nights, then 4 days off year round. I don’t do anything on my day shifts ( used to get up for the gym at 3:30, but now I workout at home with bells, it’s not so easy haha ), and if I have a busy night, I won’t workout that morning, but I manage to get 3 sessions a week, often 4.
 
If you follow the GTG recommendations you can't go wrong. Use whichever weight you can and experiment. If recovery is good, you'll be fine. You'll improve on your simple goal a lot
 
Halfakneecap said:
Do the heavier bell x 2hand on your days off when you have more time. And definitely do less days a week as the bell gets heavier. It’s also good to wave the bell weight, if you’re busy, use the 16, if you feel great, the 24. If you consistently get reps in over the week, you’ll progress. I do 2 x 12hr days then 2x12hr nights, then 4 days off year round. I don’t do anything on my day shifts ( used to get up for the gym at 3:30, but now I workout at home with bells, it’s not so easy haha ), and if I have a busy night, I won’t workout that morning, but I manage to get 3 sessions a week, often 4.
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My roster is almost identical, 2 days, 2 nights then 5 off usually. I find I get about 5 sessions in every 9 days, but with doing more overtime shifts lately it's really been chewing into that time. I figure this way I can sneak some work in on my day shifts and keep progressing.
 
End of day 1 and I've left it at 16 sets of swings and 8/8 TGU+. Feeling some fatigue in my mid back which I don't normally notice, and was actually a bit fatigued leading into the last session, but that could have been my post lunch lull. Overall pretty happy that I pulled it off, look forward to continuing to tweak it and progressing.
 
I don’t see a problem with what you’re doing, as long as you listen to your body and stay within your limits with the volume.

You won’t build much endurance this way, but if you do plenty of normal sessions as well I don’t think it will matter. The strength you build should transfer well.

Fabio Zonin wrote a great article on SF about GTGing swings for fat loss, you could have some surprising results there.
 
Stephen B. said:
I don’t see a problem with what you’re doing, as long as you listen to your body and stay within your limits with the volume.

You won’t build much endurance this way, but if you do plenty of normal sessions as well I don’t think it will matter. The strength you build should transfer well.

Fabio Zonin wrote a great article on SF about GTGing swings for fat loss, you could have some surprising results there.
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Thanks, I'll have a look for Fabio's article. Fat loss isn't a problem for me, I've been struggling for half my life to put weight on!
 
lais817 said:
@Stephen B. I assume this is Fabio's article you are referring to? “160 Seconds a Day Keep the Doctor Away!”—Burn More Fat and Improve Your Health without Breaking a Sweat with a Simple Swing Protocol | StrongFirst It seems like the benefits of short sets of swings go beyond just fat loss, in the article Fabio talks about improved brain function / more energy as well.
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Yep, that’s the one; it’s been a while since I read it. I haven’t tried it extensively, but I’ll probably do it in about 6 weeks.

Good luck with your training!
 
Your question piques my interest in a lot of ways. My point of view is that exercise is good. If you're exercising in a non-dangerous way, this is good for you. We know from scientific research that Pavel's S&S programme is excellent. Thus, approximating it somehow in a safe way is still going to be very good, if not as excellent as the full programme. Timeless Simple has made me "ridiculously" strong compared to my previous self. Swinging and getuping a 32kg kettlebell is the mark of someone who has gotten very strong. Still, my personal opinion is that in terms of being "just strong", the 24kg does it. If you are finding that your level currently demands a 16kg and you are feeling like you've gotten your heartrate up and you are being challenged by the weight, then there is no rush to move up to the 24kg. You've got your whole life ahead of you. You'll know when the 16kg starts getting too easy and it's time to do a few reps with the 24kg. I myself have been afflicted with perfectionism. Ideal and practical reality are not always congruent. 60 swings and 6 getups a day is alright. I myself don't like cutting the routine down to this, but when I get to the 60% mark, I definitely feel like I've accomplished some kind of half-decent workout already. If you're relatively new to kettlebells then you are still learning and absorbing the movement patterns. Nothing wrong with staying at 16kg for a while yet! I personally think that long-term 16kg is too light, but that 24kg is reasonable, and 32kg is the ideal. I generally train with the 32kg but will also train with the 28kg and 24kg. I even use the 16kg from time to time if I am very sore. Kettlebells are fantastic, and translate so well to sports like the ones I do!
 
To me, GTG is generally a better approach than the rest. You have the opportunity to train during your day, so by any means, take it and enjoy it.

Read the Naked Warrior for in-depth info on GTG. Who knows, maybe you'd like the exercise selection as well.
 
Antti said:
To me, GTG is generally a better approach than the rest. You have the opportunity to train during your day, so by any means, take it and enjoy it.

Read the Naked Warrior for in-depth info on GTG. Who knows, maybe you'd like the exercise selection as well.
Click to expand...
With Naked Warrior, I've read it once but for whatever reason it didn't really appeal to me outside of the GTG principle. Maybe because I haven't put the time in to my mobility for the pistol and it was just too hard. That might be my homework for tonight, have a reread of Naked Warrior.
 
Kozushi said:
Your question piques my interest in a lot of ways. My point of view is that exercise is good. If you're exercising in a non-dangerous way, this is good for you. We know from scientific research that Pavel's S&S programme is excellent. Thus, approximating it somehow in a safe way is still going to be very good, if not as excellent as the full programme. Timeless Simple has made me "ridiculously" strong compared to my previous self. Swinging and getuping a 32kg kettlebell is the mark of someone who has gotten very strong. Still, my personal opinion is that in terms of being "just strong", the 24kg does it. If you are finding that your level currently demands a 16kg and you are feeling like you've gotten your heartrate up and you are being challenged by the weight, then there is no rush to move up to the 24kg. You've got your whole life ahead of you. You'll know when the 16kg starts getting too easy and it's time to do a few reps with the 24kg. I myself have been afflicted with perfectionism. Ideal and practical reality are not always congruent. 60 swings and 6 getups a day is alright. I myself don't like cutting the routine down to this, but when I get to the 60% mark, I definitely feel like I've accomplished some kind of half-decent workout already. If you're relatively new to kettlebells then you are still learning and absorbing the movement patterns. Nothing wrong with staying at 16kg for a while yet! I personally think that long-term 16kg is too light, but that 24kg is reasonable, and 32kg is the ideal. I generally train with the 32kg but will also train with the 28kg and 24kg. I even use the 16kg from time to time if I am very sore. Kettlebells are fantastic, and translate so well to sports like the ones I do!
Click to expand...
I should have clarified a bit, this is my 3rd bite of the "S&S Cherry", over the course of a year or so. I fell off the wagon when I moved at the start of last year and again a few months ago when I went too hard, too quick with pullups and almost gave myself golfers elbow. It's a common theme that I'm slowly getting on top of with age.

After the suggestions from people on here, my first few sessions and re-realising that GTG is more a skill of strength development practice that strictly a strength practice (if that makes sense), I'm going to stick with the 16kg for the GTG sessions.

Seeing an SFG on Friday, so hopefully can have a bit of a look at technique and make sure it is sound as well.
 
lais817 said:
With Naked Warrior, I've read it once but for whatever reason it didn't really appeal to me outside of the GTG principle. Maybe because I haven't put the time in to my mobility for the pistol and it was just too hard. That might be my homework for tonight, have a reread of Naked Warrior.
Click to expand...

I think the best part of NW is the universal part, not the two exercises. Like GTG.

I'm not saying you should do the pistol and OAP instead of other exercises. They are fine choices though. Did you try a regression of the pistol that didn't work or just go straight for the real one and it didn't work?
 
lais817 said:
I should have clarified a bit, this is my 3rd bite of the "S&S Cherry", over the course of a year or so. I fell off the wagon when I moved at the start of last year and again a few months ago when I went too hard, too quick with pullups and almost gave myself golfers elbow. It's a common theme that I'm slowly getting on top of with age.

After the suggestions from people on here, my first few sessions and re-realising that GTG is more a skill of strength development practice that strictly a strength practice (if that makes sense), I'm going to stick with the 16kg for the GTG sessions.

Seeing an SFG on Friday, so hopefully can have a bit of a look at technique and make sure it is sound as well.
Click to expand...
16kg is still a substantial amount of weight. Manipulating it is going to be a healthy thing to do, definitely.
 
Antti said:
I think the best part of NW is the universal part, not the two exercises. Like GTG.

I'm not saying you should do the pistol and OAP instead of other exercises. They are fine choices though. Did you try a regression of the pistol that didn't work or just go straight for the real one and it didn't work?
Click to expand...
From memory I think I did both, but my heart wasn't really in it. I've been trying to keep the goal the goal (Simple) as I'm often distracted by shiny things. The Pistol and OAPU are probably a better fit for how I want to train while at work in all reality, but in my mind I figured working on the swing and TGU would help me progress faster with S&S, rightly or wrongly.
 
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