all posts post new thread

Kettlebell Greg of LS is artfully political in his dissemblance

I doubt Pavel wrote his book or any book for a Nobel Prize. Chucking kettlebells around is not peer reviewed science.

Speaking of scientists...Inigo San Milan is mentioned here often. He appears on various media and even then his views are taken out of context or incomplete. You can read up on his peer reviewed papers....and good luck with that. Or hear/read his distillation of research and application. He himself admits his training model is one of many.

Many roads lead to Rome. Sport scientists, coaches know this and as @Steve Freides 's quote states this model is upheld by SF and Pavel too. And the guy in the video states this too. Never got any further than that with the video to be honest.

The beef pitched towards Pavel's methods is really, well I think anyway, the term Anti-Glycolytic. I get that. It's how one interprets it, what meaning does it hold for you.

To me it means: for most of your training the output should create low to mild levels of lactate and every now and then soak yourself in a foaming hot bath of the stuff. That too is interpretative and athlete dependent. So it's the terminology, the semantics, maybe?

And given that, very much in line with what the science says by actual scientists expert in mitochondrial function....lactate is the chief signalling molecule for mito biogenesis. So one can see why Anti-Glycolytic causes brain fog.

Also where the term creates more confusion is anti-glycolytic implies an anti-glucose reference. So there is cross over to the total madness of diet and nutrition where some deep set beliefs and attitudes towards carbohydrates exist.

If you are a pro carb feeding athlete, the term anti-glycolytic may rattle your cage. If you are a IF convert, a keto knight, a wellness warrior or general low carber the anti-glycolytic vibe fits your world view nicely.

I'm a pro carb feeding athlete and anti-glycolytic training does not rattle my cage because it doesn't mean anti-glucose, does it?

So I don't think it's method, application or science but semantics, groupthink and as the title the op has chosen for the thread....politics.
 
@ali, well said. There are many perspectives and backgrounds at work leading to varied perspectives on all this.

For me, trust is an important factor. I neither time for nor interest in following references to studies and authors back to their original publications.

-S-
 
I've only seen a few of this Greg's videos and I see him as just one of many who make kettlebell training videos. I know there are videos of his that go against some of the views and recommendations here, but I don't care.
Based on the comments regarding the type of training, I came to the conclusion that I simply shouldn't read. It just confuses me and keeps me in a dilemma-glycolytic, anti-glycolytic, with lactate, without lactate and many other variations. In the end, I cleared any such thoughts and just keep doing what gives me pleasure and doesn't hurt me or make me feel uncomfortable. Whether there will be any tangible effect expressed in a significant increase in strength or muscle, I no longer care. I don't have the ability to follow programs because I get bored quickly. The important thing for me is to often put my muscles under different tension (once it will be 10x1, another time 3x5, the third time 3x12, the next 1x10 with total failure, etc.), to maintain their tone and burn calories. I do what works for me at the moment and what makes me feel good, only following the principle of not directly training the same muscle groups or similar exercises on two consecutive days. It is.
 
ali said:
lactate is the chief signalling molecule for mito biogenesis. So one can see why Anti-Glycolytic causes brain fog
Click to expand...
Say what? This is not something I am too familiar with. I knew that lactate plays a role in brain function (I think) but AGT causing brain fog? Do you have some links I can check out?
 
bluejeff said:
I knew that lactate plays a role in brain function (I think) but AGT causing brain fog? Do you have some links I can check out?
Click to expand...
Ah, hehehe. Brain fog as in confusion over the terminology. A brain ^*#%, malfunction if you like....antiglycoltyic meaning anti glucose, not using glucose as a fuel when lactate is derived from, er, glucose.
Avoiding glycolysis is to be antiglycolytic very literally when that isn't what antiglycolytic, er, means. Or something?
So no, just referring to the confusing terminology.

Yup. Lactate is good for the brain , astrocytes and neuronal health. No brain fog at all.

And given it is a good thing, good things hit the reward centres for more. Thus the proposed mechanism for exercise highs, the runner's high....a dump of dopamine. How much of a good thing?

And so, all roads lead to Rome. Individual variability tied to frequency, intensity and volume.
 
ali said:
I doubt Pavel wrote his book or any book for a Nobel Prize. Chucking kettlebells around is not peer reviewed science.

Speaking of scientists...Inigo San Milan is mentioned here often. He appears on various media and even then his views are taken out of context or incomplete. You can read up on his peer reviewed papers....and good luck with that. Or hear/read his distillation of research and application. He himself admits his training model is one of many.

Many roads lead to Rome. Sport scientists, coaches know this and as @Steve Freides 's quote states this model is upheld by SF and Pavel too. And the guy in the video states this too. Never got any further than that with the video to be honest.

The beef pitched towards Pavel's methods is really, well I think anyway, the term Anti-Glycolytic. I get that. It's how one interprets it, what meaning does it hold for you.

To me it means: for most of your training the output should create low to mild levels of lactate and every now and then soak yourself in a foaming hot bath of the stuff. That too is interpretative and athlete dependent. So it's the terminology, the semantics, maybe?

And given that, very much in line with what the science says by actual scientists expert in mitochondrial function....lactate is the chief signalling molecule for mito biogenesis. So one can see why Anti-Glycolytic causes brain fog.

Also where the term creates more confusion is anti-glycolytic implies an anti-glucose reference. So there is cross over to the total madness of diet and nutrition where some deep set beliefs and attitudes towards carbohydrates exist.

If you are a pro carb feeding athlete, the term anti-glycolytic may rattle your cage. If you are a IF convert, a keto knight, a wellness warrior or general low carber the anti-glycolytic vibe fits your world view nicely.

I'm a pro carb feeding athlete and anti-glycolytic training does not rattle my cage because it doesn't mean anti-glucose, does it?

So I don't think it's method, application or science but semantics, groupthink and as the title the op has chosen for the thread....politics.
Click to expand...

Steve Freides said:
@ali, well said. There are many perspectives and backgrounds at work leading to varied perspectives on all this.

For me, trust is an important factor. I neither time for nor interest in following references to studies and authors back to their original publications.

-S-
Click to expand...
Right, Greg is acting like he didn't read the definition of anti_glycolytic training in the book p10-11. And keeps quoting the passage from p22. He is acting like his typical audience member that he thinks will engage with this level of content at a face value level. Like I said already, he knows his audience. Being reasonable in this context is unreasonable. The entire model of this type of media is to be as relatable to the largest group of people, those that have a 3-6th grade reading level. Politicians do this to you all the time, notably English speaking politicians. I feel like this is the equivalent of telling kids Santa isn't real for adults.

John K said:
Not sure I quite agree with your read.

He introduces Pavel without much negativity. He introduces the idea of AGT. He never seems to attack Pavel as a person.

He spends most of the video talking about the science explained in AXE and how Pavel's interpretation doesn't seem to reflect how in the past 20 years most research has moved away from the idea that lactate/acidosis/glycolysis are bad, and includes clips form his 1 hour podcast with a published researcher who seems to be quite the accomplished individual.

He spends a few minutes talking about how the program is structured, says he liked it and plans on incorporating it regularly.

I don't see the disinformation campaign you talk about, or an attack on Pavel/StrongFirst.

But hey I also disagree with the proposed theory behind AGT so maybe I'm just blind to all that. *shrug*
Click to expand...
He wants to be the next Pavel. To distance himself he has to put a lot of work into sounding like a reasonable chap doing his own research to discredit Pavel. The irony is that everything he does only proves the content if the book is legitimate. I find this

I listened to the podcast with that guy he included the clip from yesterday and the look on his face was more for Greg asking a reiculous question than the quote he read to him. His actual answer backs up the content of Kettlebell AXE.

I'm actually getting to the point where I think the closest semblance of where people see this kind of acting is in infomercials in the begining when somebody with a neurological disease(JK I know they're playing dumb, my point here) can't do something like pour a glass of water or use their remote and are in need of an easy stress free solution, for only four installments of $19.95.

All of this goes back to the title of this thread. He is working his audience for his own gain. His goal is persuasion. It seems to be working--even this crowd. Curious.
 
Steve Freides said:
But not surprising. Again, best to ignore the trolls on the Internet.

-S-
Click to expand...
While I generally agree with this, there are oodles of people who don't know any better who unintentionally consume and believe a lot of misinformation.

There's tons of nutrition, health, exercise, rehab (and more) misinformation out there. It's never a bad thing to call out misinformation (though I'm not sure how much good it does on the SF forum in this particular context). Misinformation can lead those who "consume" it to waste money and/or time, set themselves back instead of progress forward, and in the worse cases, injure themselves or make their own conditions worse. In the case of the topic at hand, I think the worst of it is that a few less copies of AXE will be sold. Given that Pavel has the history and credibility he does, I doubt this guy will put a dent in it.

Edit:... THUS, being critical of things like this generates discussion and hopefully gets people to examine evidence for themselves. Once again, though, I think the place for that is this Greg guy's social media channel.
 
bluejeff said:
While I generally agree with this, there are oodles of people who don't know any better who unintentionally consume and believe a lot of misinformation.

There's tons of nutrition, health, exercise, rehab (and more) misinformation out there. It's never a bad thing to call out misinformation (though I'm not sure how much good it does on the SF forum in this particular context). Misinformation can lead those who "consume" it to waste money and/or time, set themselves back instead of progress forward, and in the worse cases, injure themselves or make their own conditions worse. In the case of the topic at hand, I think the worst of it is that a few less copies of AXE will be sold. Given that Pavel has the history and credibility he does, I doubt this guy will put a dent in it.
Click to expand...

I don't agree. None of us can possibly combat, in 2024, all the misinformation that's out there on the Internet, a fact that's compounded by the fact that we often cannot agree on even the basic facts these days. I choose to be an example of what I teach and don't point out what I think it wrong with another approach to total strangers. And viewers of YouTube are, after all, total strangers. People will do what they will without my input, and those who choose to follow the same path as me will make themselves known to me and I'll offer to help them if they wish. People will waste time and money and it's neither my job nor my inclination to stop them. I am not concerned for sales of AXE. Whatever the fellow on the YouTube channel we've been discussing is offering, I've seen enough to know I'm not interested and for me, that's how far it goes.

-S-
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom