Heavy bag substitute/rounhouse kick practice

Pasibrzuch

Level 5 Valued Member
Hello,
due to CoVid my Muay Thai gym is closed. I try to work on boxing on a double-end bag.
However, I have nothing to practice my roundhouse kicks on. The structure of my flat does not allow to hang a heavy bag. Freestanding stalls I can buy are for bags ~40kg (I need a heavier one, being 80kg at the moment) and it's financially impossible for me at the moment to buy a freestanding bag.
Do you know any solution, however macgyveresque it may be? No training partner accessible, so a pad is also out of question.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 7 Valued Member
I used to tie a bag to a tree in my backyard, maybe even a sandbag.

Bracing one to doorframe will get you kicked out of the bldg.

You might have to work on footwork and such instead. Try your hand at internet trained Krabi Krabong...
 

rwleonard

Level 6 Valued Member
I recall reading that Bill Wallace never did heavy bag kicking work, as he felt it slowed him down, changed his balance, etc. I understand that his style of kicking is much different, but, as a temporary fix, you could just work your shadowboxing hard. Technique + speed = power, eh? Oh, and should you get to be able to tag that double end bag with your roundhouse, heads should be much easier.
 

Pantrolyx

Level 5 Valued Member
Most fighters can benefit a lot, also in terms on kicking power, by focusing entirely on the kicking technique, without a human or material target, for a while.

For instance:
- Kicking slow (pressing) in the air, focusing on proper technique from the beginning to the end
- Focusing on the snap, the proper retraction and the balance in your kicks while shadowboxing

Emphasis on retracting your kicks as fast as you throw them, can improve the flow in shadowboxing a great deal, in my experience.
And better flow makes it a lot easier to land hard kicks. :)
 

North Coast Miller

Level 7 Valued Member
Muy Thai shin kicks are pretty much impossible to retract - most of the rest of them are also difficult to practice on air - aside from footjabs they all follow through. Full power ones require a 360°.

You can practice the first 1/3 or so, pulling hard with obliques and driving off the calf. You could work foot jabs slow motion to a door frame to promote solid connection to the floor. Options get limited.
 

HUNTER1313

Level 6 Valued Member
We used to kick the yellow plastice they put over telephone pole guidelines. The cable guidelines had some give.
 

Pantrolyx

Level 5 Valued Member
Muy Thai shin kicks are pretty much impossible to retract - most of the rest of them are also difficult to practice on air - aside from footjabs they all follow through. Full power ones require a 360°.

You can practice the first 1/3 or so, pulling hard with obliques and driving off the calf. You could work foot jabs slow motion to a door frame to promote solid connection to the floor. Options get limited.
Yeah, I know the philosophy in muay thai that one should always "kick through" the target when praticing, but I guess I beg to differ a bit. :)

Being able to retract a kick swiftly, makes one less vulnerable to be countered, swept, grabbed etc if the kick misses or get blocked. It also makes it easier to follow up the kick with combinations. Of course, it is possible to habituate kicking sloppy if one does not focus enough on the power aspect. But I believe that training for balance at all stages in the kicks is beneficial, also for having good "footing" and thereby being able to transfer weight in the kick while standing steady. Fighters like Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida are good examples of fighters who kick a lot - and hard - while always landing with good balance.

By the way, my main technical kicking background is from (American) kickboxing, where one is only allowed to kick above the waistline. But I am also influenced from trainers with a Kyokushin bakground, and I have developed quite decent low kicks. (I have fought in MMA and K1, although wearing shinpads in the latter). Lately, I have gotten really fond of footwork and kicking drills from Silat (Fitrah), although I have only trained the system through a couple of seminars.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 7 Valued Member
Yeah, I know the philosophy in muay thai that one should always "kick through" the target when praticing, but I guess I beg to differ a bit. :)

Being able to retract a kick swiftly, makes one less vulnerable to be countered, swept, grabbed etc if the kick misses or get blocked. It also makes it easier to follow up the kick with combinations. Of course, it is possible to habituate kicking sloppy if one does not focus enough on the power aspect. But I believe that training for balance at all stages in the kicks is beneficial, also for having good "footing" and thereby being able to transfer weight in the kick while standing steady. Fighters like Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida are good examples of fighters who kick a lot - and hard - while always landing with good balance.

By the way, my main technical kicking background is from (American) kickboxing, where one is only allowed to kick above the waistline. But I am also influenced from trainers with a Kyokushin bakground, and I have developed quite decent low kicks. (I have fought in MMA and K1, although wearing shinpads in the latter). Lately, I have gotten really fond of footwork and kicking drills from Silat (Fitrah), although I have only trained the system through a couple of seminars.
I don't have argument with this basic philosophy, for SD most of my kicking is knee or lower and almost always a counter or from a block using MT shin blocks. I spent many an hour learning to fast retract all my roundhouse kicks, esp lead ones.

Relative to the OP though, if training Muy Thai there is no choking up on your round kicks unless you can do so within the first third and can turn it into a block or tap it back on the floor quickly - after that you've committed and best you can do is step in and change leads.

I did take some Silat, and had a lot of success using full bore MT round kicks. The key is to use them sparingly and blow through when you do. Deep cut kicks like used in MT are extremely difficult to stop once they break the plane of your body, but yes, that power comes at price of serious commitment to the kick. Systems that aren't skilled at stuffing the knee or hip, or taking that block on their own lower leg have considerable difficulty navigating them.

I recall when a buddy of mine switched from American kickboxing to MT, had me hold the bag while he did full power kickboxing round kick, then a few MT shin kicks with deep penetration, nearly knocked my wind through an 80lb bag - aside from foot jabs and low kicks I rapidly retrained myself to use shin kicks in lieu of all other round kicks - again, at a price, but my philosophy has changed a lot and I don't kick much compared to when I was younger, never above the floating ribs.
 

Pasibrzuch

Level 5 Valued Member
Thank you for your answers!

I'm with @North Coast Miller when it comes to retracting the kick. If I picture it the right way a roundhouse kick you are able to retract is more of a kyokushin kick, a shin-mostly kick. I used to do it because of some immense difficulties with "pushing the hip through"/"turning the hip into kick". It took me long time to understand the "correct" movement pattern.
While writing this I'm having a flashback of an exercise I used to do to learn the demanded mechanics. It's cumbersome to describe it, so tomorrow I will record. I think it can be a good substitute.

@North Coast Miller this is the first time I've heard of Krabi Krabong. Can you recommend some resources?

Thank you all for your answers!
 

Pantrolyx

Level 5 Valued Member
Here is a mediocre compromise kick (not all the way through, yet the retraction was slow), albeit in a low-tech and relatively virus safe enviroment. 🤓


Lowkick
 

North Coast Miller

Level 7 Valued Member
Thank you for your answers!

I'm with @North Coast Miller when it comes to retracting the kick. If I picture it the right way a roundhouse kick you are able to retract is more of a kyokushin kick, a shin-mostly kick. I used to do it because of some immense difficulties with "pushing the hip through"/"turning the hip into kick". It took me long time to understand the "correct" movement pattern.
While writing this I'm having a flashback of an exercise I used to do to learn the demanded mechanics. It's cumbersome to describe it, so tomorrow I will record. I think it can be a good substitute.

@North Coast Miller this is the first time I've heard of Krabi Krabong. Can you recommend some resources?

Thank you all for your answers!
I don't unfortunately. There are a number of videos on YT, I never rec'd any instruction except a few demos and how the overall strategy and footwork are applicable to MT.

Superficially it looks like Filipino stick work but is not quite the same at all.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 7 Valued Member
Haven't seen it myself, but DogBrothers have a Krabi Krabong video instruction. Most of their other learning materials are good quality.
 
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