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How have you benefited from Zone 2?

Steve Freides said:
But we are not all you.
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FWIW here, whenever I have returned to running, it's always been by alternating running and walking because that's what's always felt right for me. In this way, I sympathize with the sentiment against "jogging" based on my own experience. But that doesn't mean that jogging isn't right for some people - many do it happily. My typical approach was to run about a half mile (about 800 meters) twice a day until I felt comfortable doing that, and then I would gradually ease back into a slightly slower pace and longer distances.

-S-
 
I'm getting the sense a lot of people are overthinking. You won't screw up your Z2 training if you're 5 bpm out of range. And if you're afraid you will, just subtract 5-10 bpm to be on the safe side. Z2 is sort of comfortable. It's not easy. It's just something you can do for multiple hours based on cardiovascular intensity (though your muscles might tire before that). Your breathing will deepen, but not yet 'quicken' (is that a word?). Also: Z2 is important, but if you're only running 3 x a week, it's not all Z2 you need. Z2 however, is a great way to add mileage that's easy to recover from.

As for which modality you use for Z2 (cycling, running, rowing, rucking, whatever): that totally depends on your goals.
Every exercise is specific. Want to run 10k in 50 minutes? Go run. Just want to be healthy? Mix & Match. Want to avoid too much stress on your knees? Go cycle. Have a job that has you in or around the water? Go swim. Hate working out? Become a mailman, professional dog sitter, farmer, commute by bike etc. etc. and put the work in.

The cutoff point between jogging and running is moot (because there is no definition of jogging), but at the same time very simple: as soon as you introduce a flight phase in your stride, it is running. If there is no flight phase, it's walking. It does not depend on pace. It's different for everyone. I can "walk" (1 foot on the ground at all times) to a max speed of around 7,5 km/h. It's a forced march, so not pretty at all, but it fits the definition of walking. Speedwalking technique is even faster. From there on, I'm starting to run. At those slow speeds it's not pretty at all and seems.... just weird. It's that border-area where 'jogging' (whatever the heck it is) is located, but again: it's not objectively defined.

TLDR: don't obsess, figure out what works for you, measure what you can and also learn to feel, be as specific in your training as you want or need to be.
 
Steve Freides said:
FWIW here, whenever I have returned to running, it's always been by alternating running and walking because that's what's always felt right for me. In this way, I sympathize with the sentiment against "jogging" based on my own experience. But that doesn't mean that jogging isn't right for some people - many do it happily. My typical approach was to run about a half mile (about 800 meters) twice a day until I felt comfortable doing that, and then I would gradually ease back into a slightly slower pace and longer distances.

-S-
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I take it running in itself is not a goal of yours? That makes this approach perfectly fine, beceause for you it's about HR "in the zone" to get the benefits. If your goals are even remotely running oriented you will quickly outgrow this approach.
 
Anna C said:
I love this description of pushing beneath with Z2 and pulling from above with HIIT.

I'm doing this currently, though not strict Z2 or HIIT. I 've switched my primary training for a 6 month period, Apr - Sept this year, to cycling first, and weightlifting second. For the past 4 years it's been weightlifting first, and cycling second. I'm 5 weeks in now and feeling strong on the bike. I'm not worrying too much about zones right now -- just trying to do a long ride, an easy ride, and a hard ride once a week, with total moving cycling time currently around 5 hours per week (up from 2-3 hrs/wk previously) and I'm aiming to increase that by 30 min per week towards September, 12-15 hrs per week to prepare for an endurance event at the end of September. I feel like the easy and long rides are pushing from below, and the hard ride is pulling from above. However it works, I am definitely improving back towards my previous cycling ability, and it feels great! Meanwhile I'm maintaining fast twitch fiber in the lower body with power training and overhead strength and lifting ability with barbell and kettlebells with 2-4 lighter and less volume lifting sessions thanks to my genius coach @randyh.
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lol, "genius coach." I'll take it. (I drink and I coach, that's what I do.)
 
fluke said:
I take it running in itself is not a goal of yours? That makes this approach perfectly fine, beceause for you it's about HR "in the zone" to get the benefits. If your goals are even remotely running oriented you will quickly outgrow this approach.
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I was a runner. Philly half-marathon three times in the early 1980's, best was 1:36:40. Best 5k was at age 45 in 2000, when I ran 20:10, which is 6:30/mile pace.

I was never great, never a high school track person or anything like that, but it was my fitness activity and I took it pretty seriously. That 5k in 2000 was a time when I was transitioning from running to resistance training and I believe the PR came partially from the fact that lifting had made me stronger in my mid-40's than I'd ever been when I was younger. By the time another few years had passed, I'd stopped running and focused on lifting, entering my first PL competition at age 49 in 2004.

I don't run regularly any more but haven't written off the possibility of doing more running altogether. I have visions of running a race with one of my sons who just ran the Brooklyn half-marathon, and also visions of trying sprinting competitively. We have a good, active local track club here.

-S-
 
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Steve Freides said:
I was a runner. Philly half-marathon three times in the early 1980's, best was 1:36:40. Best 5k was at age 45 in 2000, when I ran 20:10, which is 6:30/mile pace.

I was never great, never a high track person, but it was my fitness activity and I took it pretty seriously. That 5k in 2000 was a time when I was transitioning from running to resistance training and I believe the PR came partially from the fact that lifting had made me stronger in my mid-40's than I'd ever been when I was younger. By the time another few years had passed, I'd stopped running and focused on lifting, entering my first PL competition at age 49 in 2004.

I don't run regularly any more but haven't written off the possibility of doing more running altogether. I have visions of running a race with one of my sons who just ran the Brooklyn half-marathon, and also visions of trying sprinting competitively. We have a good, active local track club here.

-S-
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You've been around! Always nice to read about someones fitness story.

Running used to come naturally to me, but I neglected strength. 42 now and learnt some lessons. Trying to combine both now.
 
fluke said:
You've been around! Always nice to read about someones fitness story.

Running used to come naturally to me, but I neglected strength. 42 now and learnt some lessons. Trying to combine both now.
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Distance running has never come to me naturally. I've always been quick - was tough to catch when playing backyard American football - but never good at distance, so I worked very hard at that. This is also why I start out running with short distances - my running form isn't good if I start out slowly; I need to have good form, then try to keep that as I slow the pace down.

-S-
 
Neuro-Bob said:
There are several definitions of jogging….
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I’m not sure if you’re trying to be funny, but I think his point was more that “to run or ride at a slow trot” and “to go at a slow, leisurely, or monotonous pace” (the two relevant definitions from MW) is not exactly a defined pace for everyone. Or anyone.

15 years ago, I thought it impossible to run so slow as to do 10 min miles. Who could be that slow?! Now I realize it’s not so impossible and I consider it fairly respectable to have that be a “zone 2” pace. What I’d consider jogging then vs now is very different paces.
 
John K said:
For some, walking at a "moderate" pace may be Zone 3 - for others, it might barely be Zone 1.
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And in many cases it can be the same person, at the different day. Fatigue level, sleep quality, overused muscles, etc. can create a difference of 20-30 bpm at the same walk or jog or bike pace, or even walk, just at the different day. And you'll still be able to talk and won't make a difference, unless you're wearing HR measuring device.
Also, in my observations, there's not always a correlation between heart rate and respiration rate. So to say, you can run downhill being in Zone 4 and being able to sing a song, or you can suck wind after an intense snatch set and still being well under AnT.
 
Mattye said:
Everyone overthinking things ...
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Agreed. It's not like if you don't do exactly this or that many minutes of this or that % effort that you won't reap benefits. There are surely shades of gray and spillover effects and adaptations across/among cardio categories.

If you're at the level where the minutiae matters so much (and this probably applies to more than just zone 2 issues) and you can't figure it out, then hiring a coach should be your next step.
 
90-120 minutes a week just by mistake. I don't track it, but when I push a sled, do swings, easy stairmaster or walk.

What I have noticed is how HIIT sessions on the Echo Bike have been a complete game changer conditioning wise. And believe me, I am NOT a cyclist. Those have had the greatest carry over.
 
Mattye said:
Everyone overthinking things ...
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It's the INTERNET! Paralysis by overanalysis

This is a great point. I love this forum. I've always wondered how much time and progress has been ruined by scrolling through the topics wondering if you can mix BJJ + S+S AND doing the ROP with doubles 3 days a week while doing Easy Strength instead of just showing up and following through.
 
@Mattye and @BrianCF make very good points. Consistently working within some reasonable principles or parameters will yield much better results than constantly hopping around to find the optimal set up that you're not going to stick to anyways. For me, I've come down to this and try to make sure I am fitting things into these parameters.

- Strength train a few days a week, make sure you're hitting as many of the basic movement patterns as you can. Don't bury yourself regularly but don't be afraid to push from time to time either.

- Train the aerobic system a few days a week, make sure it's an effort that's relatively easy all things considered; these should be relatively "refreshing".

- Do hard conditioning based on your ability to recover; it could be once every 10 days or so or two times per week but these should be sessions where you end thinking there wasn't a lot left in the tank to give.
 
John K said:
- how did you determine that jogging was too much stress for zone 2 to be worth it, but the stress from running was appropriate?
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Because of the distinct biomechanics of trotting and proper running. The trainer how showed the difference is a German fella named "Sebastian Kaindl" Trotting is too much vertical force compared to the horizontal push.

John K said:
- how did you determine that 9-10 km/hr (~5.5-6 mi/hr) to be the cutoff between jogging and running?
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It is an estimate from experience, not set in stone.

John K said:
- are both of these cutoffs (run for zone 2, run is 10 km/hr + ) unique to you, or do you think those are broadly applicable?
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Broadly applicable.
silveraw said:
I see this thrown around a lot.

How do people empirically determine this?
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Objectively: Fasting insulin, postprandial glucose, ability to switch fuels.
Subjectively: High tolerance for carbs, high tolerance for lack of carbs, quick transition between high and low carb diets, high fasting tolerance, little hunger after prolonged exercise and more.
 
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