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Old Forum How many swings in 10 mins is respectable?

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FlyingPig

FlyingPig

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One month into ROP here. Today was "hard Saturday":

(1,2,3,4) x 5 ladders with the 24kg, alternated with (1,2,2,2) chin-ups in between presses. I took my time in between sets.

Then threw the dice and got 10, so I thought to benchmark myself for the first time to see where I stand as I've never really kept track of conditioning parameters and still consider myself a beginner.

Two handed swing with the 24kg broke down as:

(23,23,23,23,20,20,20,20,20,20)

212 reps total.

Limiting factor was my grip, not so much tiredness. Not too bad, is it? Felling pretty fresh as I am typing this an hour later.

The reason why I'm posting is the following question: would it be better to swing single-handed in future? My goal is the 200 snatches with the 24 at some point (will take me a while, I'm sure, but I'm patient), but I want to be smart about it and not force it. One concern is keeping my hands "clean" and callus free, which is why I've limited myself to doing high-pulls on Easy Monday. On Thursday variety day I did 5x5 cleans with the 32kg for the first time and it led to a callus on my right hand that tore during the session today.

I'm guessing getting used to swinging single handed (as opposed to double) and doing high pulls with the 24 over a period of time might be a good idea before actually snatching it as my technique and strength are not good enough yet, I think. Thoughts?
 
Those are good numbers for swings. I would do it this way for your goals. Light day snatch a lighter bell, maybe a 16kg, to practice technique as that is what this day is for. Medium day do one 1H swings with the 24kg. Heavy day 2H swings with 24kg or maybe even 32kg. On variety days practice high pulls with 24kg and 1H swings with the 32kg.
 
"respectable" is one more than you did last time.....

200 is good, 250 is very good, 300 is above average and more than most will ever care to get, 350 is extreme and 380-395 is about the limit of what is possible if you do not stop  the entire time.
 
Thanks for the feedback, appreciated.

Think I will practice the snatch more with the 16kg on the Monday and focus on technique, and the other suggestions seem very good too.

Tamer, good to have those numbers as a reference, they make sense. I think 250 is very doable (25 per minute, I reckon 40s on, 20s off per minute should do it). I have something to work towards to now!

Form for swings is good I think, have been checked out a few times. Snatches is a different story as I've never done them much (stuck with basics so far), but I'll practice.
 
On the two hand versus one hand question:

Two hands give you a more secure grip and the ability to do more reps in a single set (or use a heavier bell).

HOWEVER, in a longer overall timed set neither hand gets to rest. Tracy Reifkind has a lot of creative ideas for mixing up one and two hand swings within sets and workouts to get a high volume in a given time. If you read through her blog, you can pick up a lot of great ideas.

http://tracysfoodandthought.blogspot.com/

I also find the one arm swings have better carryover to the snatch. Two arm swings have carryover in terms of your lungs and hip drive (especially since they allow you to use a heavier bell), but wind and hip drive don't matter if you can't hold onto the bell, and that is most often the limiting factor.
 
I thought to update this thread rather than create a new one. Here we are a year and a half later, and I would like to rephrase my original question: how many double swings in 10 minutes is respectable?

Doing a hybrid of Kettlebell Strong and the One programme, today I did:

(24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 23, 23, 23, 23, 23) = 235 reps in 10 minutes with double 24 kg.

24 reps in one go for me equates to about 37 seconds of work and 23 seconds of rest. It's getting very hard to push it further but I'm hoping to make it to 250 one day.

This type of training is interesting for me as I'm not used to it. The S&S way of only going up to 10 crisp reps then rest is quite different, but I think these longer grinds have their benefits too as I feel more conditioned than ever.

Anyone else doing something like this? I'd be very interested to hear other people's experiences. Is anyone able to go a full 45 seconds and only rest 15 seconds for a full 10 minutes?
 
I am also about a month into ROP and I have been shooting for around 200 reps one handed for the heavy days. I am doing that based off of the S&S goal of 100 in 5 min with the 32 which I hit last  year.

Right now I am varying the bell I swing based on the number of minutes that I roll, if I roll 6 or less I swing the 32 and swing the 24 if I roll more than 6.  Or sometimes I have swung the 32 for 4-5 minutes of 20 a minute and then did the rest with the 24.

My plan is to try to keep upping the minute cut off for how long I can swing the 32 at the 20 reps per minute pace.  I am doing the same cut off on the medium days but aiming for a slower pace.

I do a few snatches 3 sets of 3 with the 24 on my variety days or swings with the 32 for 3 sets of 10 if I have not gotten in reps with the 32 yet that week (or nothing if my hands are beat up).
 
I would respect 235 double 24kg swings in 10 minutes, since I'm not even at half that yet.

You, Mr. Pig, are savage.
 
The ONE program is no Joke. I never had as much stamina as I did when doing the ONE with 2x24kg.
 
Mike, out of interest, did you follow the One programme as written? I'm asking because I'm finding it impossible and instead I just try to do "something more" the next session. There is a point as you approach 40 seconds work per minute that it gets really tough as your rest is so little. Also, at some point, hopefully towards the end of this Strong cycle, I will be able to say "this is good enough" (very good baseline for stamina indeed, maybe I should keep the reps as they are -- good enough -- and aim for making the later reps easier and more explosive) and move on to double 28's later on.

Chris, just keep going, I once struggled to press a single 16kg for 1 rep but consistency over a few years can achieve a lot, I found! (also, I hope the above posts don't come over as "bragging" about numbers as they are pretty meaningless to me, it's just that I train on my own with very little interaction and feedback so this public forum is very valuable to check in every once in a while)
 
I would never see planting your flag and saying "I did this" as bragging. Sorry if I gave you that impression. My only takeaway from this is the inspiration and courage to do this myself.

Even if your swing numbers are a fraction of some of the SFG Gods around here, they're yours. I'm not as impressed with the absolute number as I am with the tenacity and hard work that it must have taken to get there.

Gives me--a fellow mortal--cause to hope and I'm looking forward to a little "bragging" a year from now, myself.
 
@FlyingPig

 

I did the Strong/ONE plan.

 

Yes the ONE part got hard. I just kept the form good and some days when it was 45/15 it may have been less swings but I kept the form good and the power output high. I never just repped out. Bad idea with Swings I think to do that. Especially DSW.

So yeah. One day soon I will run just the ONE and see how I do on a 3x week version. I suspect that I may be able to hit more quality reps with that.

 

 
 
Thanks Mike, good to hear your experience. Today I decided to drop the reps to 20 per minute, for a solid 200 in total, explosive and hardstyle. About 30s work, 30s rest. Felt good, more like after a session of S&S, recharging the batteries.

One thing I don't really get is how when you go up to 45/15 you can do fewer  swings. Surely when you do them explosively you have a certain set cadence you can't really deviate from, and after 45 seconds anyone should hit at least 25 reps, if not more?

Anyway, I think I'll just aim for 20 to 25 reps per minute, proper hardstyle in the lower range and still aiming for good form in the higher, more "grinding" range, as both have their place I think. Either way, two times a week 10 minutes of this, and you get a hell of a lot of bang for your buck (loving the simplicity).
 
@FlyingPig,

 

Funny you bring that up. I have toyed with the idea of a hybrid of something like ONE and S&S for my own training. IF I do that I will let you know what I find works out... I think even just the 10x10 with Doubles would be pretty good!! (2x32kg would be killer....)
 
F.P.- The One was too hard for me and I quit before I mastered it.  I can't remember which bell size I was using...probably 20kg's.  Double KB swings are just brutally hard and uncomfortable for me.  I don't like swinging with my legs so wide apart.  I much preferred Scott Iardella's – Shock And Awe Protocol because of the variety of moves for doubles although Geoff's books are totally top notch.

In S&S, Pavel tells us to test every couple weeks with a set of non-stop swings.  I think I got to ~70 with the 24kg two handed most recently. Two handed are harder than 1 handed as you don't have as much breathing flexibility because of constriction of the ribs with your arms.  The goal is 10o non-stop single KB swings before moving to the next size KB.  I'm guessing that 100 reps of swings is ~2.5min straight.  I believe I usually do 19-20 reps in 30 seconds when I do 30:30 second intervals of work to rest.  10min straight of double KB swings seems like a super hard road....but good luck!

Last weekend I got 100 24kg snatches in 4:20min and I just put the bell down once for ~15-20sec while being tested by someone counting reps.  I probably prefer snatch testing to swing testing.  I've never approached SSST with 200 reps but may have been able to do it the day I got 125 reps in 5 min a few years back with 24kg.

Sorry for the ramble...
 
@Mike

I agree, doubles 10x10 would be good and an interesting variation. The problem with all of this is obviously availability of the bells. I was quite proficient in S&S with the 40kg but never went up to the Beast as I decided buying another 24kg for my first double kb work would be a better investment as pressing has always been my weakness. My next investment will probably be another 28kg for double 28 work (another cycle of Strong).

@Michael

Not rambling at all, but some very interesting thoughts there.  I looked at the Shock & Awe protocol and, like with Geoff's own complexes, it looks great, but technically I'm not at this level and I would need to be trained and assessed a bit more by an SFG. Hence why I stick with the basics as there is still a lot of progress to be made there. Plus snatching is problematic as the ceiling in my "home made gym man cave" is too low...

Good point about testing yourself periodically with non-stop swings. I might just do that after the last One session. I guess it'd be a bit like swinging a 48kg, but then even harder! On the topic of snatching, it's a weakness on my part as I have never done them much, but my idea is to build strength endurance "the safe way" with heavy swings, and I might just do the 5 min snatch test at the end of all this too to see where I stand in that regard. Once I got to 94 reps and I think I'd nail it now. But, all in good time, first want to finish the programme like a good comrade.
 
F.P.-  I've not gotten as far as you in S&S.  I definitely hit the Simple Goal but not a whole lot further other than adding in a couple 40kg TGU reps and infrequently some 40kg 1-hand swings.  But the 32kg swings were "money" in helping prep for my 5min snatch test.  I originally was planning to prep by working more 40kg swings into S&S but then just decided to up the intensity of 32kg 1-hand swings by trying to go non-stop for as long as I could and playing around with a few more reps per session than 100 and more time than 5min of swings.  I definitely needed to introduce snatches into my prep to get that groove and condition my body further.  I was super sure in my biceps a few times when I added snatches in.  On S&S test day once before I was even into in my snatch prep, but using 32kg for S&S regularly, I cranked out 84 reps of 24kg snatch pretty easily without too much psych.  I actually had not snatched in ~1 year+ when I did that test but had been on S&S for ~6 months with one break to cycle Shock & Awe through.

And more WTH...even though I was not training much C&P at all, I got a PR on my right hand C&P with the 36kg.  I failed with the 40kg on one try and should have tried it again the next day.  The 36kg just flew up.  And this was a result of heavy S&S TGU with most reps 32kg and 1 or 2 reps with the 40kg per set.  Last time I got 36kg was only on my left and Pavel was watching in San Jose at 2012 RKC...I did not try the 40 that weekend unfortunately.  My right shoulder at that time was healing from a surgery in 2011 to repair a torn labrum.
 
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