Hyperventilation while asleep?

Waryrenn

Level 5 Valued Member
The latest article states "the implied goal of breathing retraining: reducing subconscious ventilation..."

Just made me curious to know has there been any research to see if breath training has an impact on breathing rates when asleep?

If so, does that mean that untrained individuals are also hyperventilating even when asleep, or does sleep-state override chronic hyperventilation?
 

North Coast Miller

Level 7 Valued Member
I would find that very difficult to believe without some concrete studies. Presumably the overheating effect many people experience when sleeping is from naturally reduced breathing volume.
 

Al Ciampa

Level 7 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
The latest article states "the implied goal of breathing retraining: reducing subconscious ventilation..."

Just made me curious to know has there been any research to see if breath training has an impact on breathing rates when asleep?

If so, does that mean that untrained individuals are also hyperventilating even when asleep, or does sleep-state override chronic hyperventilation?
You will not find much direct evidence in the scientific literature, essentially because no one is studying it. But we might be able to extrapolate off of sleep studies...

An non-obstructive apneic episode follows one of hyperventilation. There’s clinical evidence that a formal breathing practice can ameliorate or eliminate a diagnosed non-obstructive sleep apnea. So...


I would find that very difficult to believe without some concrete studies. Presumably the overheating effect many people experience when sleeping is from naturally reduced breathing volume.
Incorrect. Overheating is associated with heavier breathing, not reduced breathing. Hof’s method turns on that phenomenon.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 7 Valued Member
Incorrect. Overheating is associated with heavier breathing, not reduced breathing. Hof’s method turns on that phenomenon.
Blood CO2 is the most potent natural vasodilator in the human body. If CO2 levels are depressed you'll have somewhat decreased circulation - this is a key principle in breath training and fully supported by science.

It makes sense that one would give off more heat with increased circulation, not reduced, similar to what happens from drinking alcohol (and for the exact same reason), and the most plausible explanation for this is increased CO2 from a more relaxed breathing pattern. I guess it could also be from some obstructive sleep disorder that also tend to increase blood CO2, but for sure it won't be from an increase in breathing rate.

Whether this (giving off heat due to vasodilation) really is from increased CO2 levels or some other factor in an otherwise healthy sleeper would probably require individual testing. I know when I do sitting breath meditation I give off a lot of heat with no exertion. If that's not from increased vasodilation I'd be interested to hear alternative theories.
 

Al Ciampa

Level 7 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
Blood CO2 is the most potent natural vasodilator in the human body. If CO2 levels are depressed you'll have somewhat decreased circulation - this is a key principle in breath training and fully supported by science.

It makes sense that one would give off more heat with increased circulation, not reduced, similar to what happens from drinking alcohol (and for the exact same reason), and the most plausible explanation for this is increased CO2 from a more relaxed breathing pattern. I guess it could also be from some obstructive sleep disorder that also tend to increase blood CO2, but for sure it won't be from an increase in breathing rate.

Whether this (giving off heat due to vasodilation) really is from increased CO2 levels or some other factor in an otherwise healthy sleeper would probably require individual testing. I know when I do sitting breath meditation I give off a lot of heat with no exertion. If that's not from increased vasodilation I'd be interested to hear alternative theories.
You absolutely have the right to believe that anything “makes sense”.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 7 Valued Member
@North Coast Miller, what "conscious breath training" are you speaking of?

-S-
Buteyko, the belly breathing that is commonly demonstrated in Dr offices to help with anxiety, positive pressure mindfullness breathing techniques used in some zen offshoots, Qigong breathing exercises, object breath meditation in some of the Buddhist traditions, breath exercises common to some of the yogic traditions (I say "some" as I realize many of these broader traditions have a lot of distinct regional flavors which may or may not jibe with the literature I've been exposed to).

These all increase vasodilation, oxygen turnover, reduced excitability.

Healthy individuals generally exhibit a reduced respiratory rate when sleeping, and universally exhibit a reduced tidal volume - nearly 50% in some cases. I can't say for sure if the increased loss of heat is mostly from vasodilation due more to increased blood CO2 or the effect of Melatonin, but it is due to vasodilation and changes in respiration almost certainly account for some of it.

You'd think more would be understood about this, but most of the research is focused on people with sleep apnea/hypercapnia. A slight increase in environmental CO2 improves sleep, too much and it triggers an increase in HR and you wake up.
 
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