Is ETK/RoP still a valid S & C Program?

PackMan

Double-Digit Post Count
Cut a long story short: my brother (amateur runner, does it for fun, but wants to be the best he can and complete a half marathon in 2 hours. He started looking into strength and conditioning about a year ago and he got started on swings and single C & Ps.

He's interested in buying ETK but I am wondering, as it has (in effect) been superseded by S & S, is the RoP still seen as an excellent generalist S & C program?

As for why doesn't he do S & S: he is averse to get-ups because he smashed his left elbow joint to pieces (requiring surgery) 2 years ago, and it hurts on the 'roll up onto elbow' first part of the move, even with cushioning underneath.

Oh, and as well as using the 2 variety days for running, could he add (say) a day's easy running after the hard Rop day, giving 3 days of RoP and 3 days of running, per week?
 

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Senior Certified Instructor
PackMan, the Rite of Passage from Enter The Kettlebell was, is, and will be a program that is among the most successful I know at delivering what it promises. Tell your brother that, as long as he is healthy and moves well, he has no reason not to begin it.

A two- hour half-marathon is about 9:10/mile - that should be an achievable goal for many people.

As to running after the hard ROP day, I'd rather see your brother do sprints _before_ his presses on one of his press days, wait several hours, then do his presses and skip the swings on that day. JMO but it seems like a better choice to me. I might do this on the light day instead of the heavy day, however.

-S-
 

Baron von Raschke

Triple-Digit Post Count
So, what does the Rite of Passage do that S&S doesn't do, if anything? I was literally two weeks into the ETK Program Minimum when I stumbled onto S&S and switched programs. I was having a hard time learning to do Cleans correctly and S&S took much less thought, by design, because I was already pretty well versed in swings and getups. I also stepped up to the 24 kg bell for my swings on S&S and the whole 10 sets of 10 reps seemed a lot more doable with less potential for injury. In terms of overall fitness (shoulders, glutes, lats, forearms, etc.) they're pretty similar, right? Or do all the C&P ladders in RoP lead to better upper body hypertrophy? I'll be sticking with S&S due to its simplicity and better fit with my time constraints but am just curious about the comparisons. S&S seems to maybe bridge a gap between ETK's PM and RoP? Thanks!
 

MikeMoran

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Currently on ROP right now. YUP makes your Press and pretty much whole body strong. Still works.
 

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Senior Certified Instructor
Baron, S&S is our foundational program. Complete at least its Simple goal then you may choose to stick with it or switch to another program, your choices including but not limited to the Rite of Passage.

-S-
 

Baron von Raschke

Triple-Digit Post Count
Got it, thanks Steve. Just completing the Simple goal will be a huge improvement for me. I'll take a look RoP again once I get there. It will give me more time to practice cleans, anyway.
 

PackMan

Double-Digit Post Count
Pavel and Steve (again), thanks! I have ordered him a copy of the book. I don't have mine, I lent it out years ago and it never came back, the swines! :-D
 

ClaudeR

Triple-Digit Post Count
So, what does the Rite of Passage do that S&S doesn't do, if anything? I was literally two weeks into the ETK Program Minimum when I stumbled onto S&S and switched programs. I was having a hard time learning to do Cleans correctly and S&S took much less thought, by design, because I was already pretty well versed in swings and getups. I also stepped up to the 24 kg bell for my swings on S&S and the whole 10 sets of 10 reps seemed a lot more doable with less potential for injury. In terms of overall fitness (shoulders, glutes, lats, forearms, etc.) they're pretty similar, right? Or do all the C&P ladders in RoP lead to better upper body hypertrophy? I'll be sticking with S&S due to its simplicity and better fit with my time constraints but am just curious about the comparisons. S&S seems to maybe bridge a gap between ETK's PM and RoP? Thanks!
ETK Rite of Passage is a pressing specializtion program, while S&S is a general strength (or rather GPP general physical preparedness) program
S&S first, then add specialization on top after that (or stick with any GPP program, depending on your goals)
 

Pavel Macek

More than 2500 posts
Master Certified Instructor
All our students are required to fulfill the get-up "Simple" standards from S&S (5x32 kg), and only then they can start with ROP. Most of them start with 20-24 kg, and stay on the program for 2-3 cycles, always re-starting with a heavier weight. Works every time. The ladders periodization within periodization format and classic easy-medium-hard protocol is simply brilliant. ROP: turning boys into men since 2006. It delivers and always will.
 

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Senior Certified Instructor
Although it may be obvious by now, the one-armed overhead press shares some of the benefits of the getup - both requires core stability.

@PM do you do anything different with post-S&S students and their swings in the ROP? I have considered doing the swings _first_ the next time I do the ROP, which may be pretty soon.

-S-
 

Inuk

Triple-Digit Post Count
Hey Packman.

Just out of curiousity. Why does your brother want to do the RoP, when his goal is to complete a halfmarathon in 2 hours?

IMO, a strength program that focus on the lower body, would be much more appropriate for his goal.
 

Pavel Macek

More than 2500 posts
Master Certified Instructor
@Steve Freides (cool, I just discovered tagging on the forum!): I want the students to fulfill 10x10 one-hand swing with minimum 24 kg, S&S style, and only then I teach them clean proper (mostly they already learn cheat clean and correct rack position before).

After that, they keep swinging, but either higher volume (up to 200 swings), and/or heavier weight (28, 32), like Brett Jones' heavy swing day in SFG1 prep. Once they can comfortably swing 28-32 kg, they start with the snatch technique - 16, 20, 24 - and still keep swinging. Once their snatch technique is alright, they do the standard ROP swing/snatch protocol.
 

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Senior Certified Instructor
Very good, Pavel. So you keep the swings _after_ the presses on ROP press days? Just want to confirm that. Your progression sounds perfect to me but I confess I'm interested in trying it the other way around. In the past, I've used the combination of presses and windmills in my ROP, along with the supersetted pullups. Just thinking about the program I'm going to do next.

-S-
 

Pavel Macek

More than 2500 posts
Master Certified Instructor
Yes sir, we swing after the presses, until the snatch technique is alright, and then we do the regular ROP easy snatch - medium swing - hard swing day. And of course, we do C&P with chinups/pull-ups (on S&S level, the students learnt the hollow position and hollow hang).

All the notes above is how we do it in our regular group classes, progressions for different levels so to speak, so the students can do the C&P & pullup & swing part before they master the snatch properly.

Another note: My wife's female students, as well as some of my male students start with the SFG 1-Day Course program (presses 1 - swings + goblet squats - presses 2). Higher overall volume with lighter weight, and we have excellent results with that, it sets up a good foundation for ROP.
 

Pavel

Founder and Chairman
Master Certified Instructor
Very good, Pavel. So you keep the swings _after_ the presses on ROP press days? Just want to confirm that. Your progression sounds perfect to me but I confess I'm interested in trying it the other way around. In the past, I've used the combination of presses and windmills in my ROP, along with the supersetted pullups. Just thinking about the program I'm going to do next.

-S-
Steve, sorry, I did not understand the question.
 

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Senior Certified Instructor
This was address to our user "PM", Team Leader Pavel from the Czech Republic. (Did I get that right?)

-S-
 
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