Israetel: How Often Should You Use Exercise Variation?

[Kenny Croxdale]

This is a good article by Dr Mike Israetel regarding the need to Vary/Change Exercise periodically.

It reinforce previous research information that has been posted on this forum.

Two of the primary components of long term progress is based on Varying Exercises and Perioidization Training.

Ironically, many individual employ Short Term Deloads that obtain Short Term Results rather than Long Term Progress.

Below are some the key component of the article.

How Often Should You Use Exercise Variation?

How Often Should You Use Exercise Variation? - Ascendant Strength

The General Adaptation Syndrome

This term was coined by Hans Selye, MD, PhD, circa 1923 regard diseases.

An over simplied definition is that you either adapt or die. It also applied to Exercise and Diet; losing or gaining weight.

"Adaptive resistance means that the more you try to get something to adapt in a particular way, the less it adapts and the slower progress in that direction is."

"Using the exact same exercises all the time leads to adaptive resistance localised to the specific muscle fibres used in that exercise."

Varying Exercises

"For the purpose of exercise variation I consider changes in stance/grip width/position as a separate exercise (changes that aren’t very small such as moving your hands out by only 1cm each)"

"Even if different exercises use the same muscle groups to a similar extent, the force angles involved are different. Therefore different parts of muscles and connective tissue get stressed."

"Always training the exact same movement pattern with no variation allows microtears in connective tissue to be repeatedly aggravated in the same way."

"...Variation allows you to get more training in specific muscle groups as a whole."

How Often Should You Use Exercise Variation

"When you vary exercises too often such as every microcycle (i.e. switch exercises every training week) you never actually allow your body to learn the movement pattern to any decent extent."

My Side Note

This is one of the primary issues with CrossFit's chronic WOD, Workout of the Day Programming.

Training Age

This term has been note in previous post on this forum.

It is defined as how long and individual has been training. Not there chronoligical age.

Let's break it down...

1) Novice Lifter

"Novice lifters are an exception to this."

"When recovery is on point a lifter shouldn’t remain a novice for much more than 6 months or so."

"Novices grow from pretty much anything."

Novice Lifter adapt slowly.

Thus, they perform the same program for a longer time period before needing make changes, change their exercises.

Novice Lifter can usually perform the same Training Program for around 12 Weeks before they need to make changes.

However, if they are still making progress they can continue with their program until their progress stops.

Once the program stop working, the exercises needs to be changed.

2) Advance Lifters

These lifter adapt quickly to a Training Program. Once Adaptation occurs, progress stop.

Advanced Lifter need to change their Training Program about evey 3 - 4 weeks.

3) Intermidiate Lifters

These lifter are inbetween Novice and Advance.

They usually need to change their Training Program about every 8 weeks.

Movement Pattern Differences

"There are 2 main levels of exercise variation, close variants and variants that just use similar muscle groups. Close variants are those which have only one change from the previous exercise, in some cases maybe 2 smaller changes."

"For example switching from a touch and go barbell bench press to a close grip or even close grip paused bench press is a close variant."

Strength levels​

"Even though strength levels don’t directly correlate with how advanced you are they’re usually a pretty good proxy. Stronger individuals are usually more technically proficient and have been training the exercise longer. Due to this fact they tend to adapt quicker. They use heavier loads and have a higher risk of injury. They’d benefit from varying exercises more often."

My Side Note

As per Pavel, "Strength is a skill."

Technically Proficiency

Barbell - Removing assistance exercises from deadlift dynamite plan

I just want to do the main lifts but the book instructs me to do assistance exercises as well All these exercises are high reps so i assume they are there for a hypertrophy benefit or tendon ligament strength stuff but i am not a pro powerlifter and doesn't my cardio make my tendon ligament...

www.strongfirst.com

Post 16 provides the Protocol for becoming Technically Proficifient in Movement/Lift.

 

[watchnerd]

The lack of novel stimulus seems to come up pretty frequently here.

People who stall out after doing the same program over and over for the better part of a year or multiple years.

Somehow some people get the idea that minimalist programs can be done in perpetuity without variety.

Additionally, I'll add that if one treats macro cycle training as seasonal (i.e. do different stuff in spring/summer than winter/fall), the variety and novel stimulus issues tends to take care of themselves.

 

[Adachi]

Somehow some people get the idea that minimalist programs can be done in perpetuity without variety.

Yeah, so, I am currently interested in the ways in which a lot of us seem to miss a lot of purveyors' caveats, and attempts to fence in their advice, to a limited domain of application.


A Game Of Telephone.
Since, I was googling words like hypertrophy, and muscle growth,I was barraged by a series of clips and videos from Mike Mentzer, especially vis a vis YouTube. And I subsequently did some googling about his career and background. Now, I am not particularly interested in bodybuilding competitively or otherwise. But, there are two things that arose from my initial exposure to his words, and the description of his message from other people, thereafter.

The first thing: when listening to Mike mentzer giving his own presentations, he regularly provided caveats and limitations on the application of his advice. At no time was it apparent to me from his own words, that he meant for a trainee to limit themselves to such minimalist prescriptions as he provided forever or even beyond a couple months or so. He provided a lot of limiting factors about variations that he was seeing in his clientele, how to accommodate those variations that he was seeing, how he saw it as being distributed along a spectrum, from people who benefited most from training once every 10 days to training every other day, or so.

The second thing: a lot of people who either support or detract from his advocacy for his views, seem to be lacking what I would refer to as the limitations on applicability that Mike provided in his own presentations, when giving his own speeches to different groups over time. So, I think that there's a bit of loss in the telephone game from one person to another.

I have enough trouble with this game of telephone between myself and a particular book that I have read multiple times. Like simple and sinister, or the quick and the dead. I've countlessly looked back at the book and noticed something that didn't come to mind.


Let he who is without misunderstanding cast the first stone
I would say that memory is fallible and complete recollections may be harder to maintain across time even in the case of a repetitively studied subject.

I don't remember everything about anything all the time. I remember a lot, but not everything.

And so, there are limitations of duration across the calendar year that are given. There are limitations on what should be expected to result from many training programs. These limitations and caveats seem to be forgotten or missed, very frequently.


Father time comes for us all.
I might be, one of the most ardent proponents of minimalist training regimes for my daily life. Given my life's demands I've seen as few as 30 minutes per week training. One or two exercises per cycle. I have gone through 6 months of nothing but 24 kg snatches, or 12 to 18 months of nothing but swings and getups. But, ultimately, probably just as well as anyone else, I can absolutely notice that gains wax and then the rate at which gains accrue wanes over time.

After achieving a training age of 3 to 4 years now, I do tend to notice that the amount of change that any particular minimalist protocol I use has been leveling off approximately every 12 weeks or so. I get a lot more results in the first 6 weeks. I get a little more results in the second 6 weeks. It seems to taper off towards nothing after that. Not exactly nothing, there are ancillary benefits of efficiency, that are most obviously noticed in the semi cardio sensation decreasing over time. But, mostly, I can run a minimalist program for about a season. And, it will seem profitable at this point to do so.

I understand, given the general adaptation syndrome, that at some point those time windows will decrease. I hope to notice them clearly enough to be able to go with the flow and increase the frequency of changes in my training. Especially if I can avoid banging my head against the wall.


When the winds change, adjust your sails.
I would hope that my explanation about the way I view a program designer's description of their own program, and the way other people secondarily re-present the program that they did not design, might offer some clarity that no program is all things to all people, forever.

Every program will provide what it provides for as long as it provides it. I think that it's up to the practitioner to change the sails to catch the changing winds, so that they can get to wherever it is that they want to go.

 

[AJL]

One of the best pieces of training advice I’ve ever seen was one Pavel gave in the KBSF program: Variety is Overrated.

The strongest people on the planet, pound for pound, are Olympic weight lifters, and as Pavel says, they work on the same few lifts over and over again for decades.

PERSONAL OPINION ALERT: Israetel’s training methods are not compatible with StrongFirst’s teachings. (Reminder: this is an opinion.) In the same way that Dan John seems to frame everything through the lens of “Olympic Lifting is the ultimate goal,” Israetel teaches bodybuilding. Unless I’m waaaay off here, StrongFirst focuses on GPP as a gateway to strength, hence the name. Muscle building, fat loss, aesthetics, and all the rest are only byproducts of the Strength Lessons.

Israetel‘s YouTube channel is one of the few I’ve actually blocked on YouTube. One can only take so many videos of him calling people idiots and rubbing his forehead in consternation because they don’t want to look like The Hulk.

 

[watchnerd]

The strongest people on the planet, pound for pound, are Olympic weight lifters, and as Pavel says, they work on the same few lifts over and over again for decades.

Well, actually, it's not really even close to being that simple.

a) Olympic weightlifters (unless following Bulgarian methods) do a lot more than just the same few lifts over and over. Even the Russian weightlifters have a huge variety of lifts they do, in addition to the competition lifts. The Chinese even more so.





b) Weightlifters don't do the snatch and C&J to get strong. They do squats, pulls, push presses, etc to get strong. Repeating the competition lifts over and over is for *practice*, just like going to batting practice or a driving range.





Sometimes they even bench press for block or two:





c) By the time they hit their peak, they're spending less time doing the competition lifts compared to when they were younger (when young, skill acquisition is the primary task) and comparatively more time moving up weight classes and getting stronger via strength work and even general bodybuilding / hypertrophy.

d) And, of course, they periodize their training, which creates additional variety.

 

[North Coast Miller]

Have become a big proponent of autoregulation as I've gotten older. For the last 3 years I don't even use a notebook. Since beginning on the isometric experiment my base approach hasn't changed from when I was doing sandbag or the last block of KB.

But, I do change the angle and some of the other aspects of how I train specific holds/exercises, and do so regularly, if even by just a few degrees. I purposely do not make any special effort to set up at the same angles or points in a ROM. To me, it just isn't enough to vary the load.

I will also say, if you listen to yourself you'll learn when its time to change things up. Sometimes it might be only a few weeks, other times it might be a few months before you hit the adaptive wall. I do not advocate making a change before you feel the response dropping off (this being for GPP, if competition prepping, stick to a schedule).

 

[Boris Bachmann]

Israetel‘s YouTube channel is one of the few I’ve actually blocked on YouTube. One can only take so many videos of him calling people idiots and rubbing his forehead in consternation because they don’t want to look like The Hulk.

LOL - agreed!

 

[North Coast Miller]

Israetel‘s YouTube channel is one of the few I’ve actually blocked on YouTube. One can only take so many videos of him calling people idiots and rubbing his forehead in consternation because they don’t want to look like The Hulk.

I hate to say it, but advice from people who juice is best reserved for people who juice. He has plenty of good advice but I don't find much of it very novel.

 

[silveraw]

Well, actually, it's not really even close to being that simple.

I know!

Chloe Brennan, 140lbs. Lifted the 733lb dinnie stones. That is the best pound for pound feat of strength that I know of. I'm sure there is some legendary feat from some old timey strongman... But she was 100% not strung out on meth and coke like the mighty atom was.

Israetel’s training methods are not compatible with StrongFirst’s teachings.

I dunno, the base principles of SF are continuity of the training process, wave the load, and specialized variety. Those are the same principles Isratel's strength programs follow.

His strength focused stuff should look very familiar if you have read PTTP Professional or Reload. Eg, his "simple DIY powerlifting" video is basically start out with a set of 5 where you could do 7 or 8, stop when reps start slowing down, increase intensity a bit every week, and focus on the big movements.

There ain't that much new in strength training to be honest. It is like Taco Bell. Same basic stuff over and over. You have your rice, beans, tortilla and meat. Taco? Rice beans tortilla and meat. Burrito? Rice beans torilla and meat. Crunchwrap? Rice beans torilla and meat.

Which one is better?

 

[AJL]

Well, actually, it's not really even close to being that simple.

a) Olympic weightlifters (unless following Bulgarian methods) do a lot more than just the same few lifts over and over. Even the Russian weightlifters have a huge variety of lifts they do, in addition to the competition lifts. The Chinese even more so.





b) Weightlifters don't do the snatch and C&J to get strong. They do squats, pulls, push presses, etc to get strong. Repeating the competition lifts over and over is for *practice*, just like going to batting practice or a driving range.





Sometimes they even bench press for block or two:





c) By the time they hit their peak, they're spending less time doing the competition lifts compared to when they were younger (when young, skill acquisition is the primary task) and comparatively more time moving up weight classes and getting stronger via strength work and even general bodybuilding / hypertrophy.

d) And, of course, they periodize their training, which creates additional variety.

Let’s chalk it up to a difference of opinion between you and Pavel, I guess.

 

[watchnerd]

Let’s chalk it up to a difference of opinion between you and Pavel, I guess.

Well, as someone who has competed in and trained for weightlifting for over 10 years, I feel qualified to have an opinion on how weightlifters typically train.

 

[watchnerd]

I know!

Chloe Brennan, 140lbs. Lifted the 733lb dinnie stones. That is the best pound for pound feat of strength that I know of. I'm sure there is some legendary feat from some old timey strongman... But she was 100% not strung out on meth and coke like the mighty atom was.

Yeah, I wasn't going to get into whether weightlifters are actually, pound for pound, the strongest athletes as it was off topic for the subject of variety.

But most *powerful* athletes by weight is more likely.

 

[Nate]

Many at SF do apply variation by running a block of S&S, then Q&D, back to S&S, then ROP, etc.

General Adaptation Syndrome, the SAID principle, biomechanics, mechanisms of hypertrophy or strength are all stiff we covered in Kinesiology 101 & tend to be supported as true. Sandow, Gironda, Arnold, Mentzer & Froning understood it & applied it differently, but while our understandings and applications may vary the biology remains true. Understand it as broadly and deeply as you can, always looking for more & apply it as best you can to the person, task, or goal at hand. And great quote, when the winds change, adjust your sails.

 

[djm]

I find that with minimalistic programming I can get away with small changes while basically doing the same lift.

As an example, I 1h snatched for 7 months simply by alternating AA style and QnD. Made progress the whole time and didn't get hurt.

Alot of times people get hung up on minimal effective dose vs maximum results. I find those 2 are completely different concepts.

 

[silveraw]

Alot of times people get hung up on minimal effective dose vs maximum results. I find those 2 are completely different concepts.

In practice they aren’t that different.

For instance a recent study found that doing a single bicep curl 3x a week increased strength. This was replicating a study that did a single curl 5x a week. That certainly seems like a minimum effective dose for strength to me. But we have minimalists doing multi rep and multi set programs claiming to do the bare minimum.

They are maximalist minimalists claiming to maximize their minimalism while decrying the maximal dose group who are really just people going to the gym for an extra 15 minutes longer and trying to get the most of it.

Basically they are on a spectrum and the minimalists are a lot closer to the “maximal result” crowd than either would care to acknowledge.

 

[LarryB]

If anything i feel like I’m getting red pilled towards a hypertrophy block. The Alan Thrall video really got me thinking last week too. I have a lot of respect for him and is a legit strongman, but he lays out a great case for why hypertrophy/body building has a place in all well planned cycles.

Even Fabio just put out BuiltStrong. I think it’s ignorant to think one is superior or “right”. It also made me think about what these minimalist programs were made for. Soldiers, weekend warriors, martial artists etc. They all have PA built into their everyday lives or weekly schedules. Grapplers are on constant hypertrophy blocks with TUT. Punchers/kickers are doing sprint repeats as they hit the bag/pads. @offwidth is cycling up a mountain road and then climbing up the rest of the way by hand. I feel like the minimalist programs fit best in my life when i am already training or participating in a sport/PA. That being said i love them all, but am just looking at these sexy hypertrophy blocks.

 

[Hung]

I find that with minimalistic programming I can get away with small changes while basically doing the same lift.

As an example, I 1h snatched for 7 months simply by alternating AA style and QnD. Made progress the whole time and didn't get hurt.

I can argue that we can do a same concept of training, with just a slight modification of the lift.
For example, a lifter doing a top set of 5 at RPE 9, then reduce the weight and do 3 back off sets of 5
The lifter, after a block, can keep doing top set of 5, but change back off set to pause squat. Next block can be high bar

 

[silveraw]

If anything i feel like I’m getting red pilled towards a hypertrophy block

It’s getting a bit chilly at night. Means winter is on the way.

Fall/Winter is hypertrophy season and now is the time to start planning.

 

[djm]

In practice they aren’t that different.

For instance a recent study found that doing a single bicep curl 3x a week increased strength. This was replicating a study that did a single curl 5x a week. That certainly seems like a minimum effective dose for strength to me. But we have minimalists doing multi rep and multi set programs claiming to do the bare minimum.

They are maximalist minimalists claiming to maximize their minimalism while decrying the maximal dose group who are really just people going to the gym for an extra 15 minutes longer and trying to get the most of it.

Basically they are on a spectrum and the minimalists are a lot closer to the “maximal result” crowd than either would care

 

[djm]

In practice they aren’t that different.

For instance a recent study found that doing a single bicep curl 3x a week increased strength. This was replicating a study that did a single curl 5x a week. That certainly seems like a minimum effective dose for strength to me. But we have minimalists doing multi rep and multi set programs claiming to do the bare minimum.

They are maximalist minimalists claiming to maximize their minimalism while decrying the maximal dose group who are really just people going to the gym for an extra 15 minutes longer and trying to get the most of it.

Basically they are on a spectrum and the minimalists are a lot closer to the “maximal result” crowd than either would care to acknowledge.

I don't know man, not sure we can compare adding 1lb a week to your dumbell curl to a systemically effective lift like AA snatching. I'll concede both similar body mechanics to improve though.

Not sure about the whole "maximal minimalists vs minimal maximalists" poopooing each other on these forums. I see disagreements between adults on the internet. Thats very modern times. The fact that thier mostly good natured disagreements shows the quality of the ppl that use this forum.