all posts post new thread

Kettlebell Kettlebell snatch drop question

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Eric Wilson

Eric Wilson

Level 6 Valued Member
I understand that the idea is:
  • flip the bell
  • let it fall somewhat freely
  • catch the bell
  • direct it back to the starting point of a swing
But I’m having trouble with the catch.

I hook the handle when the bell is at my midsection, and it is traveling fast. My arm is bent, of course, because the path of the bell.

As it continues downward, it yanks on my bent arm in a way that is awkward and a little painful for my elbow.

I’m not sure how to smooth out the part between the catch and the straight arm back position, to avoid the full force of the dropping bell being absorbed by my elbow.

(I know, video would help, I’ll do that if I can’t get a useful suggestion here.)
 
Yes without seeing a video it makes it difficult to pinpoint the spot. A couple thoughts from what you describe:
1. When you cast the bell out from the top position you should be leaning back slightly For counter balance. a slight “matrix”move
2. When you get to the mid section you should be throwing the bell between your legs. This is also the point where hips should be going back. I call it the “oh s*** moment” when the bell is flying back at you you have to throw your hips backTo keep the bell from hitting you in the privates.
3. When the bell is going between your legs Think glue your forearm high on your inner thigh
 
OK, that's useful. I haven't been leaning back at the cast. That might help me reduce the bend in my arm and tame the downward arc.

I also may be waiting to long to redirect it backwards. It sounds like you are saying that the bell should be directed towards the groin from the moment of the "catch". I think that I've been letting it continue downward (gaining speed) when makes the redirection sharper and at higher speeds.

Thanks much. If I'm not seeing improvement with these suggestions in a week or so, I'll post a video.
 
Eric Wilson said:
OK, that's useful. I haven't been leaning back at the cast. That might help me reduce the bend in my arm and tame the downward arc.

I also may be waiting to long to redirect it backwards. It sounds like you are saying that the bell should be directed towards the groin from the moment of the "catch". I think that I've been letting it continue downward (gaining speed) when makes the redirection sharper and at higher speeds.

Thanks much. If I'm not seeing improvement with these suggestions in a week or so, I'll post a video.
Click to expand...

You can also reduce the strain on your elbow for a while by racking the bell on the way down, then hike it down mimicking the downward path of a clean.
 
Eric Wilson said:
  • flip the bell
  • let it fall somewhat freely
Click to expand...

It can help to be a bit more active with the pull-down. You don't actively have to flip it if you initiate the downward motion right... it will flip itself. This is an old video and not my best snatches but you can see the initiation of the drop pretty well. Are you coming over the top like this (hardstyle), or doing more of a corkscrew around to the outside of your arm (GS-style drop)?

Then the trick is to ride with it, guide it, and absorb the drop by loading the hinge.

barrak said:
You can also reduce the strain on your elbow for a while by racking the bell on the way down, then hike it down mimicking the downward path of a clean.
Click to expand...

This is a good idea. It's known as a half-snatch. Snatch it up, lower it down in two parts. This allows you to work on the power for the upward portion without the strain of the drop.
 
I'm going for the hardstyle approach -- I'm thinking it is less technical.

Thanks for the video. Looks like your arm never really bends very much. I'll see what happens when I'm more actively pulling the kettlebell downward and backward.
 
I was going to say the same thing as @Anna C. It’s important to not let the bell drop faster than your gripping hand (i.e. don’t let the weight of the kettlebell become a runaway train, you need to be the one in control at all times). Practice with a lighter kettlebell so you can really pull-catch the kettlebell from the top position and control it all the way down.
 
Mike Torres said:
It’s important to not let the bell drop faster than your gripping hand (i.e. don’t let the weight of the kettlebell become a runaway train, you need to be the one in control at all times). Practice with a lighter kettlebell so you can really pull-catch the kettlebell from the top position and control it all the way down.
Click to expand...
Words always mean slightly different things to each person but what Mike said plus Anna's linked video--I found that in my words, I would be almost pulling up on the handle during the descent. Not actually pulling up, but just enough gentle pressure to give that control Mike mentions. That smooths out the deceleration at the bottom of the arc and eliminates the "yank". If that didn't make sense, just ignore it ;)
 
Anna has helped me a lot with my swing. That video tells it all. I think about actively driving the bell all the way down. That way there is no catch point where you suddenly have the full mass and force of the bell working against you. This also helps with the grip strength to hang onto the bell all the way down. Once the bell is about chest high on the way down, it's just a standard swing the rest of the way.
 
Anna C said:
Then the trick is to ride with it, guide it, and absorb the drop by loading the hinge.
Click to expand...
Your tips are always exceptional, as well as a technique on the videos. I really enjoy it. The tip about absorbing the drop stroke me the most, as in my humble opinion, being confident about absorbing the drop automatically releases the instinct to let it flip, instead of dead-gripping out of fear of kettlebell slipping out of a palm.
 
Mike Torres said:
It’s important to not let the bell drop faster than your gripping hand
Click to expand...

Yes, this is the absolute key. My instructional tip is to imagine the bell drops at 10 mph (hypothetical, actual drop speed is irrelevant), thus you pull/guide the bell down at 10 1/2 miles per hour. This eliminates the elbow wrenching "YANK!!" and loads the hinge for the next snatch.

You will hear a variation on this from every SFG. Every SFG has done many 100 rep snatch tests and quite a few of us have done the 200 rep Secret Service Snatch Test. Preparation for and improving at these events requires refining technique to eliminate all potential injuries, be it elbows, hands, or anything else.
 
what @Anna C and @Mike Torres and @WxHerk said, in addition here is how I go about my snatch practice:

Prior to every snatch session, before I pick up the bell, I go through three exaggerated motions on both sides. The first is drawing my snatching hand and arm up close to the body, like I am zipping up my body. That hooks in the idea of keeping the bell running vertically instead of laterally on the way up and tight to my frame. The next motion I do is a "pull" from the top, you might call it a catch, but I am thinking full control of the bell from the very top and yanking it down my body and through my legs, forcefully, not violently yanking, but forcefully, in my mind I equate forceful to controlled aggression. The last movement I do is an exaggerated "punch" with my arse. This "slamming the car door shut with your butt" idea that I believe Pavel wrote about in Enter the Kettlebell - this punch back with my hips centers my attention on actively engaging the hips as the driving force of the exercise. These three motions put my mind into the task and help me to focus on the parts of the snatch I feel require the most attention. The pull from the top, really should be just that. Get control of the bell right off the bat.
 
In addition to all the good advice given above, you will notice that when you do it "right", the hike of the kettlebell at the bottom is almost automatic. If you do snatches the way you describe then in your original post, the kettlebell just wants to go down, and you have to very actively pull it back. With smaller weights, it's doable, but when the weight gets larger, it becomes very difficult to have a smooth movement if you don't lean back a little on the drop to let the kettlebell go down close to you. When you do it right, the kettlebell still has a bit of momentum at the bottom that you can redirect smoothly in an arc to load the next rep.

Have a look at this video from @Harald Motz. Some repeats are from the side in the middle of the video and you can clearly see him get out of the way of the kettlebell, and the resulting good hike at the end. If you don't do this, the hike is almost impossible to achieve with a 40kg as in the video.
 
There is a lot of advice here, but I just went downstairs to try it out, and I'm missing something.

Trying to pull the bell down as assertively as possible. Still feeling like my arm is going to get yanked off if the weight is more than 12kg.

I'll experiment this week and then post a video next week if I haven't made progress by then.
 
@Eric Wilson Video would be helpful. One thing to make sure of is that you aren't "casting" the kettlebell out away from you from the top position, but just letting the kettlebell drop. Pretend there is a wall 2 feet in front of you - don't hit the wall. And ensure your shoulder stays connected the entire time.
 
@Eric Wilson I have found these answers to the kb snatch drop question particularly helpful:
- wrist flexion
- lead with the elbow with intention to reconnect upper arm with torso asap
- break at knees to make space for the bell

Harald Motz said:
View attachment 9934
lockout position where I tend to have a flexed wrist. Gives me a stronger lockout and an easier flip on the eccentric.
Click to expand...

Harald Motz said:
eccentric, the bell is flipping, loose grip, handle more towards the fingers hook, my knees going forward to make space:
View attachment 9936


The catch into the hike: the handle is deep into my palm and the handle is pinched tightly into the meat of my palm. 'overgripping' ...'whip grip', 'deep grip
View attachment 9937
Click to expand...

From here:
 
Last edited:
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom