all posts post new thread

Old Forum Kettlebell Squats and Milk (Not going to beat a dead horse)

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)

acrowe

Level 1 Valued Member
I'm currently a cadet at a Military College in South Carolina and an Infantryman in the Light Infantry unit stationed here.
Due to the school restricting the gym's hours to just a few hours per day (for roughly 1,000 cadets that religiously go and the many in-and-outs as well), the math doesn't add up well for a smooth gym experience. Due to this, two classmates of mine (one Airman currently serving and the other classmate going into Law Enforcement) seemed to have seen the light that the kettlebell offers.

What they are wanting from me, however, is a program that will have them gain enough mass (provided they eat sufficiently for their goals and drink a gallon of whole milk a day for the few week period), but to maintain and improve their conditioning simultaneously.

Of course I've spent hours scouring over the internet, through thousands of posts utilizing poor grammar and too many "experts" in gaining mass or this and that. However, through hearing of complexes first through the "Total  Tension" Kettlebell Complex as well as reading "Mass Made Simple" by Dan John, I'm hoping to try and use common sense and good programming to hopefully give these guys want they want and possibly provide the foundation for a whole new program utilizing kettlbells and bodyweight. Of course, I could be very far off from the mark, which is why I am curious to see the input of more experienced individuals here.

 
Monday/Wednesday/Friday
 (Strength Focus)
High-Rep Double Kettlebell Front Squat -20 to 50 repetitions (depending on weight)
Weighted Dips/Pullups - 5x5
Kettlebell Complex - [Either Dan John's 5x3 or Total Tension Pyramid Format]
Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday
(Conditioning Focus)
Kettlebell Swings, possibly in Tabata format
High-Repetition burpees
*And of course, can be changed by needs with things such as: Sprints, HIIT Bodyweight Circuits, Plyometrics, and ballistic kettlebell exercises.
Sunday
Rest

So, I know the whole topic of gaining mass with kettlebells has been thrown around the internet,  beaten into submission, and pissed on with mislead opinions of the many; it also comes into controversy with the many cult-like followers that swear by barbells being the only means to gaining appreciable muscle and view kettlebells as simply a tool for "toning."

So while I know that for the goals set that barbells would satisfy it the quickest and in most simple fashion (progressive overload is much easier to obtain with barbells, add 5lbs per day), I hope that I could program a kettlebell system that could  deliver added lean muscle mass, but to save and improve conditioning and explosive strength. The gains would be significantly slower than a pure mass-building program, but I feel like this is something that could possibly be unique and be a springboard for others. By no means am I an expert, which is why I seek the experts opinion.

 

If you read this whole post, you're a genuinely great person to whom I can't thank enough. I love this website and the community, I believe the articles posted on Strongfirst are top-of-the-line, well educated, and backed by science and hardwork. I look forward to any and all input, whether it be positive or constructive input. I'd love to be a guinea pig for this!

Very Respectfully,
SPC Crowe

“Only through struggle does one cultivate the strength to achieve their true destiny.”

 
 
IMO, if the primary goal is size, you could do much worse than doing KB Squats, KB Presses, and either pull-ups or rows 3x/week and calling that good.

I realize we all want our program to do everything... all the time... simultaneously, but it might not be the best approach. Periodization seems to get a bad rap these days in S&C circles, but the good thing about it is that there are clear targets for (for example) 3-6 weeks and then the focus changes.
 
A little too much i think. Rest and rcovery is very important when comes to a muscle building.

Armor Building from Dan John is great stuff. 2 double cleans, 1 military press and 3 front squats. Use protocols from RoP (heavy, medium,light).  From bodyweight add tactical pullups and you will be great.

Eat, train, and rest a lot. You can't do everything at once.

Less is more.
 
My two cents. I was in the arborne infantry for 8 years.  My experience was strength is far more important than mass. Mass is a obstacle when your carrying all of your provisions and weapon systems on your back. I witnessed many "jacked" men struggle with humping their packs 10 plus miles/day combined with assault operations. Get strong and lean and hard as woodpecker lips. Nothing diminishes your leadership like falling out and not keeping ahead of your troops. when I was in the easy days in garrison began with a six mike run at a six minute clip. Mass is not your friend in most infantry scenarios. Good luck and thank you for doing what others won't. Strike Hold!  AATW!
 
Scott Owens: I completely agree with you, trust me. I've seen much of the same thing during our ruck marches here as well as when I was deployed to eastern Europe with NATO, besides a few rare exceptions, most of the big guys just could not perform like some of the other guys that trained smart.
Thank you for your service, good to hear from another 11B on here. Ruck Up!

 

Boris Bachmann: Thank you for your input, I do like the science behind periodization, but with a mass gainer, there is not much we can do to suit those needs for it. I'm currently taking Krav Maga/Muay Thai four to five times a week, which I know Dan John recommended against if trying to bulk. The others are training up for PT tests and all-around fitness and feel inclined against a pure mass-building program that requires so much rest and does not fit their immediate goals.
So I do completely agree with you, I would just really hate for them to drop their goals and for me to stop training with my combat sports just for some added mass.

Lukasz Ponicki: I was getting that notion as well, I know how much importance is put on rest. I'm sure it can be geared back depending on our recovery and move it with our ability, but you're right.
I have not read Armor Building yet, I just pulled it up, this should make for a good read.

Thank you everyone for your input, I appreciate it!
 
Crowe,

I was not suggesting a pure mass-building program, but mass was the first goal you mentioned. I'm simply suggesting you may be trying to do too much w. guys that are probably already putting in plenty of PT already. Keep it simple.
 
Bachmann,

My apologies, I interpreted your post the wrong way. So you believe KB Squats, KB Presses, and either pull-ups or rows 3x/week while eating enough would be simple enough and might accomplish the same thing?
 
Hi GI,

just input my tuppence worth, I'm ex British Army, 14 years in total, REME so a tech more than a grunt, but we still do the same tests and standards ;-)

When i decided i was going joined up i was about 160lb, after 9 months (the last 3 which were basic training) i was at 190lb, lean.

The six months prior to Basic, i lifted with a basic Full body barbell workout  twice a week, ran 3 times and swam once, in training Pt was about 4 or 5 times a week, plus one full body weights on the sunday or saturday depending what was going on.

I think the key was eating everything in reach, and not wiping myself out on the FB workouts but still working hard.

The extra weight and strength was an advatange if anything.

the basic FB was this all done for 3x10

squats or hack squats

bench press or dips

deadlifts or RDL

Military press or arnold press

Pullups or chinups

some Abzzz

that was it i think your plan looks fine ,

and keep up the good work :)
 
Stephen Sherman,

Thank you for your service as well, and I won't hold the tech deal against you ;)

What I like about your program that it seems like you judged it based off your needs and listened to your body. Proper eating, I'm sure, while doing compound exercises and full-body movements and didn't sacrifice your conditioning for your military service; in addition, it looks like you avoided complete failure to help with recovery and making better gains.

I appreciate your input!I think if the three of us listen to our bodies, eat right, on top of a gallon of milk a day, but listen to our bodies to make sure we scale everything to allow for proper recovery, then it could be a good program. Who knows? Could work, could fall on it's face.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." - Theodore Roosevelt

I hope life is treating you well, Mr. Sherman, much respect and  I hope you and your family are doing well!
 
The best way to gain mass with kettlebells is with doubles.  But, if your guys don't have kettlebell experience, that probably wouldn't be a good place to start.  You didn't really say how much kettlebell experience they have.

I was in the navy, so haven't done a lot of rucking.  But, from what I have read from people who have done a lot of rucking in the military, swings were a major game changer.

Instead of writing your own program, it might be a good idea to use proven programs.  The PM in ETK would probably be a good place to start.  Swings and getups would be good for a soldier, and would fit in with all of the other activity you are already doing.
 
Personally, I'd do some variant of 50/20. It builds unreal work capacity in terms of strength-endurance, at least maintains 1RM strength and aerobic conditioning even without any specific work, and packs size on pretty well if you eat for it.

http://affectinggravity.blogspot.com/2013/09/have-it-all-bryce-lanes-5020.html

I hit my first 2.5x bwt. deadlift the same week that I ran a 6-minute mile, after not running for over a year, doing this program.

chins/dips on day 1 and kettlebell front squats (cleaning the first rep of each set) might be a good idea here.
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom