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PlanStrong/BuiltStrong Kettlebell training weights as % of 1RM

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PeterLuffman

PeterLuffman

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If I wanted to run a double KB program using Plan Strong, I assume I just add the two bells together eg if my 1RM is pressing a pair of 24kg, I use the 48kg 1RM column to find my percentages?

Has anyone figured out percentages for double 1RMs higher than that?
 
I've used that approach for double KB front squats but don't think I've done a PS program for double KB presses.

If it helps your brain, you could think of 2 KBs as being like a barbell in that you use both hands to move the weight but it's still one number for the load. However, since the weight jumps are so great with KBs it will be challenging to calculate for double presses given that moving from double 24s to double 28s is going from 48 to 56k, an 8k (18#) jump. That's no small jump. Unless you have a specific reason for wanting to program double presses, I would recommend you do a single press program instead. Especially since your single press max is probably the same in each hand (maybe one bell size difference), hence the program will be the same loads, sets, and reps just done with both hands simultaneously rather than with a few moments between sides.

Thoughts?
 
I had my group test their 1RM this week. A bunch of the women pressed a pair of 16kg, two of them pressed a pair of 18kg and one pressed a pair of 20kg.

I had originally planned on using the 60% and 80% zones only for this plan.

The reasons are:

With 60% zone they can get a lot of volume since rep range goes up to 10, and I don't want the pressing to dominate every session.

I opted for 80% zone because its a very different stimulus to 60%.

However, here's the problem:

2 x 16kg 1RM = 2x14kg (88%)
2 x 18kg 1RM = 2x16kg (89%)

Optimal rep range for above 85% is 2-4

I think these ladies will be struggling to hit doubles, let alone triples and 4 reps with such a high percent of 1RM is nigh on impossible.

So I guess I'm looking for confirmation that using 60% and 70% zones would be a better choice in this scenario?

Its possible to use 3 zones, but I'm trying to keep this plan simple, and since this group hasn't had their volume and intensity controlled like this before, I think two zones will bring a good result.

Thoughts coaches?
 
Disclaimer: I haven't attended plan strong or built strong yet but I have done a couple of plans from both

I'd suggest: use 10kg and 12 kg for those who have a 16kg 1 rm

12kg and 14kg for those who have an 18kg 1rm
 
Mark Limbaga said:
Disclaimer: I haven't attended plan strong or built strong yet but I have done a couple of plans from both

I'd suggest: use 10kg and 12 kg for those who have a 16kg 1 rm

12kg and 14kg for those who have an 18kg 1rm
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Which is 60% and 70% zone weights.
Thanks Mark, I think that's the best option too.
 
You could definitely go with the lighter loads. You could also test a 5-8RM instead of 1RM. Given the big weight jumps with KBs I think an 80%-ish number is more helpful because that gets you in the sweet spot for building strength. Plus assuming they're not elite athletes (maybe they are), their maxes will increase every month so that 1RM will be old news pretty soon.

Also, 88 and 89% respectively are too heavy for the bulk of the monthly volume. Even a PS70 plan would want the HARI lower than what either of those loads will allow you to do.

If you don't want to have pressing dominate the sessions, I would suggest you look into a different style program. A Plan Strong press program by definition requires a lot of volume. If you don't want the presses to dominate, you should try something like Easy Strength. This would allow them to press and make progress, but not overwhelm.

Hope this helps!
 
John Spezzano said:
You could definitely go with the lighter loads. You could also test a 5-8RM instead of 1RM. Given the big weight jumps with KBs I think an 80%-ish number is more helpful because that gets you in the sweet spot for building strength. Plus assuming they're not elite athletes (maybe they are), their maxes will increase every month so that 1RM will be old news pretty soon.

Also, 88 and 89% respectively are too heavy for the bulk of the monthly volume. Even a PS70 plan would want the HARI lower than what either of those loads will allow you to do.

If you don't want to have pressing dominate the sessions, I would suggest you look into a different style program. A Plan Strong press program by definition requires a lot of volume. If you don't want the presses to dominate, you should try something like Easy Strength. This would allow them to press and make progress, but not overwhelm.

Hope this helps!
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Great suggestions John, thank you!

I hadn't really considered Easy Strength for a kettlebell class.
 
PeterLuffman said:
Great suggestions John, thank you!

I hadn't really considered Easy Strength for a kettlebell class.
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I have done this quite a lot with group classes and found it works great. It's effective and if the program is GPP-ish you can still touch on other movements.

Let us know how it goes!

John
 
PeterLuffman said:
I had my group test their 1RM this week. A bunch of the women pressed a pair of 16kg, two of them pressed a pair of 18kg and one pressed a pair of 20kg.
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I've had good success with Fabio Zonin's 5TRM program (3x/week for 9 weeks, including the final test week). According to the article below, it's based on phase 1 of military press plan 410 from the Plan Strong manual, but with modified intensity and NL. You use a main weight that's 90% 5TRM for ladders of 2, 3, 5 and an overload weight of 105-110% 5TRM for 1 (first 6 weeks) or 2 (last 2 weeks) singles on the low volume day.

With KBs you have to approximate a bit. For a 16kg 1RM, you could use 12kg for the main weight (75% 1RM) and 16kg or 14kg for the single(s), depending on how solid the 1RM is). For an 18kg 1RM, you could use 14kg for the working bell (77.77%) and 18kg or 16kg for the single(s). For a 20kg 1RM, you could use 16kg (80%) or 14kg (70%) for the working bell (if 80% is too heavy to get the 5s on the ladders), and 20kg or 18kg for the single(s).

I really like this program. The intensity is "comfortably heavy," it's a nice medium volume overall, has a nice waviness from day to day (although the total weekly volume increases linearly), and the overload singles gives you a taste of near max lifts, but in small doses. Throughout the program, the sets of 5 were challenging, but after following the deload/testing week schedule, I was able to crank out 12L/10R with my working bell, which was formerly about a 6RM (I did it with single KB MP).

Fabio Zonin 5TRM Program
 
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John Spezzano said:
you could think of 2 KBs as being like a barbell in that you use both hands to move the weight but it's still one number for the load.
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Stability Factor

The issue in performing a movement with two Kettlebells vs one with the same load is the Stablity Factor.

There is going to be more InStabilty with two than one.

It somewhat similar to performing with the same load in a...

Barbell Vs Dumbbell Bench Press

Let's use 200 lb as the Total Load.

Bench Pressing a 200 lb Barbell is easier that Bench Pressing two 100 lb Dumbbells.

That because the more Stable a Movement, the more weight you can lift.

The more UnStable a Movement is, the less weight you can lift.

Thus, adjustment need to be made when a Movement goes from being fairly Stable to UnStable.
 
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Steve W. said:
I've had good success with Fabio Zonin's 5TRM program (3x/week for 9 weeks, including the final test week). According to the article below, it's based on phase 1 of military press plan 410 from the Plan Strong manual, but with modified intensity and NL. You use a main weight that's 90% 5TRM for ladders of 2, 3, 5 and an overload weight of 105-110% 5TRM for 1 (first 6 weeks) or 2 (last 2 weeks) singles on the low volume day.

With KBs you have to approximate a bit. For a 16kg 1RM, you could use 12kg for the main weight (75% 1RM) and 16kg or 14kg for the single(s), depending on how solid the 1RM is). For an 18kg 1RM, you could use 14kg for the working bell (77.77%) and 18kg or 16kg for the single(s). For a 20kg 1RM, you could use 16kg (80%) or 14kg (70%) for the working bell (if 80% is too heavy to get the 5s on the ladders), and 20kg or 18kg for the single(s).

I really like this program. The intensity is "comfortably heavy," it's a nice medium volume overall, has a nice waviness from day to day (although the total weekly volume increases linearly), and the overload singles gives you a taste of near max lifts, but in small doses. Throughout the program, the sets of 5 were challenging, but after following the deload/testing week schedule, I was able to crank out 12L/10R with my working bell, which was formerly about a 6RM (I did it with single KB MP).

Fabio Zonin 5TRM Program
Click to expand...
Great result!

The program looks interesting, thanks for the heads up!
 
John Spezzano said:
I have done this quite a lot with group classes and found it works great. It's effective and if the program is GPP-ish you can still touch on other movements.

Let us know how it goes!

John
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I assume you use doubles when programming in an Easy Strength format?
 
PeterLuffman said:
I assume you use doubles when programming in an Easy Strength format?
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Sorry for the delay @PeterLuffman I just saw this post now.

It really just depends on what you're doing. Unless you have a very specific reason for doing double presses, I would stick to singles. The load gets very challenging very fast with double KBs and the overhead stability requirement can be too much for some students. For squats depending on the student's skill level, strength level, and goals, I've utilized this approach with Goblet Squats, single KB front squats, or double KB front squats.

Hope this helps!
 
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