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Old Forum Lifting without warmup

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Marlon Leon

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Dear all,

 

The one thing that confused me most in some of Pavel's is the lack of a warmup. I am thinking of PTTP,  but saw the same in Tim Ferris' book where he describes the training of Barry Ross.

 

It buffles me as I had learned that a proper warmup is essential to perform well and not risk injury. I can and occasionally cut short warmup, but in hindsight it was a bad idea.

 

So I am asking if anyone can explain me the reason for skipping warmup and if that works for all lifts or only for som? I just cannot imagine to do the Olympic lifts without warmup lifts.
 
Leon, there is a difference between a proper warmup and getting a sweat going.
Muscle Activation drills are working wonders for me. Running on a threadmil for 15 minutes do not.

In PttP I would not jump into the working weight (although that's always an option), instead I would load on some plates lift 2-3 times, load up some more plates lift 2-3 times. Untill I am at working weight.
 
I agree with Joel,  that's how I warm up.  Back in the day when I trained at a gym, it was lifting to failure that got me hurt.  Not lack of a proper warmup.
 
I've noticed through trial and error that a pattern has emerged with my training over the years. As I've aged (now 53) I have found that if I neglect or elect (through lack of time) to train without any warmup I am more prone to injury. If I warmup the injury rate is less. I read somewhere that as one ages the ratio of white to red (fast twitch to slow twitch) changes with red becoming more dominant. I also recall reading that red fibres, relying more on the vascular system to supply nutrients and energy, require increased bloodflow to reach optimum functionality therefore "warming" them up enables them to contract more efficiently and for longer. Anyone care to comment on that then I'm all ears!
 
@superjoel: what you describe is the classical way to work up to the work sets. However, if I am not mistaken this is not part of pttp and the similar BarRoss protocol doesn't seem to incorporate that.

So am I mistaken about the protocols themselves or how is it supposed to work?
 
Leon, I believe Pavel discusses this in PTTP.  Research showed that people need warmups if they're used to them - taking them away does have adverse consequences.  But it also shows that, if you're not used to them, you can lift just as well.  No one says to eliminate a warmup altogether, but your goal should be to gradually get used to doing the minimum you need.

E.g., my deadlift working weights begin at 255 lbs. - my recent 1RM is 360 lbs. and 255 is about 70%.  (I am just shy of 60 years old and lift raw, 148 lb. class.)    So I do 225 for 1-3 reps as a warmup, and that's it.    225 comes off the floor like it's a bag of groceries, as it should, so what's the point in doing more or going lighter?   For me, none.

-S-
 
Agreed,if your use to going right into your set weight then thats your thing.I once saw Pavel arrive a little late for a DL session and we were up to 425.We asked if he wanted to warm up he said no and went right to the weight and pulled.I personally like to dial in starting at 135 to grease the groove up to my set weight.The nervous system and muscular system get to know what they are in for as well as dialing in technique.Some times not many warm up sets other times more warm up sets.

One thing though in real life if you need to rely on your strength for something you will not usually get a warmup especially if its an emergency situation.Something to think about.
 
Leon, warm-up is highly individual.  Speaking of Olympic lifters, Rigert famously walked over to the bar with 130kg or barefoot and wearing a swimsuit and casually snatched it.  Dr. Judd Biasiotto, the author of the book 'Psych' we sell on this site, would sleep between powerlifting attempts.

"Greasing the groove" reduces the need for warm-up.
 
I'm currently re-reading Original Strength, and this is addressed there - and it basically supports greasing the groove.

It addresses that comment you hear all the time about not warming up: Lions don't have to warm up and stretch before chasing down their prey, so we shouldn't have to either.

The Original Strength reply to that is: You're not a lion. You aren't out chasing prey all the time, and are more than likely sitting on your butt in front of a computer most of the day.

The implication is that if you're out chasing prey all the time - that is, staying active daily, or almost daily - you don't need to warm up and stretch much, if at all.

This goes right along with greasing the groove - doing the stuff practically every day.
 
Thanks for all the responds.

@Lion and men: It is a nice allegory but I think our lifestyle is vastly different from that of an animal in the wild.

 

@Pavel: Rigert did that on a bet not as a general method. Besides even 130 was far off his best of 185 kg. And more importantly Rigert is not really like  any other human. I have never seen a weightlifter that doesn't warmup for a competition neither on  local nor on international level.

 

Besides my point was not that I think it is impossible to lift a lot without warmup, but it doesn't mean it is a good idea. Often regret such stunts later.

And how do I know that my body can deadlift let's say 95% without a warmup?

In the end it seems to me that it might be possible but it also with a certain risk. Thus,  I wonder if the benefits really outweight the risks.
 
Leon, it is highly individual.  Spending energy on your work sets rather than your warmups is, all other things being equal, a better use of your energy, so experiment with doing less and see how you feel.  "Highly individual" means there will not be one size that fits all - I do very little in the way of warmups but that may not work for you, or it may.

I don't think anyone would pull a 95% DL without warmup if they didn't have to.  The point here is that most people don't need 135 x 10, 225 x 8, 315 x 5, etc., on the way to a 405 x 1 95% lift.   Maybe 135 x 5, 225 x 4, 315 x 2-3,  etc., is a better choice for most people, most of the time - same warmup weights, half the reps in my example.

-S-
 
@Lion and men: It is a nice allegory but I think our lifestyle is vastly different from that of an animal in the wild.
Click to expand...
Just to be clear - what you say here was exactly my point (and that of Original Strength). It's not a fitting allegory because we're not animals in the wild.

If we were in the wild, we would be forced to move every day, and wouldn't need to warm up because we would always be mobile. But as it is, we are generally pretty sedentary, so the muscles aren't always ready to snap into action.

Hence the referral to grease the groove - staying active almost daily.
 
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