little detail of the get up

Discussion in 'Kettlebell' started by ali, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. ali

    ali Experienced and Respected on the Forum

    I'm re-visiting the get up. Trying to zone in on all the details of the movement and constantly smoothing things out, or at least that's the aim!! And I've noticed a small (actually quite big) detail that has made a big impact on the quality of the movement and wanted to know if others have noticed the same.....the final roll to end the movement.
    I've always paid attention to the set up and all the component parts but have ended the movement with more of a turn and thud, as if the move is over when the press is lowered. It's really odd that the last move can clean up the preceding moves but it does.....it makes the whole thing more complete, so the next rep is smoother. Much like the importance of the set up providing a platform for what follows, the finish, it seems to me now, is of equal importance. Dunno why I've only just noticed after 100s of get ups, but there you go.....always something to improve upon......
     
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  2. Zach

    Zach Becoming A Strong Poster

    I like this observation. I've noticed that I do this kind of "naturally" (which means I'm doing it after my boys are asleep and I'm trying to not make loud noises) when I'm doing this at home, but if I'm at the gym I'm less concerned with how the bell comes down. I hadn't thought about it until now, but I like the way my get ups are at home much better.

    Thanks @ali for pointing this out.
     
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  3. Kettlebelephant

    Kettlebelephant Experienced and Respected on the Forum

    Nice that you found something that further improves your TGU!

    I'm guilty of not doing the last roll properly, but I don't care. I can get the KB safely to the floor without it.
    Originally the TGU was performed with barbells or circus dumbbells. You can't really do the roll with those tools, only with a KB.

    Can't say that this is the case for me and I can't think of a way how this is possible.
    The part before the roll is being on the elbow and getting back to the laying position. If you did that part poorly (and I see a lot of people doing especially the "hand to elbow"- & "elbow to floor"-part poorly), how can a move that comes afterwards clean that up? It doesn't make sense.
    If I do a poor bench press rep and a second perfect one after that, the second one doesn't make the first one any less bad.

    Like I already said, it's nice that you feel stronger with your TGU, but I doubt that it's because of the reason (the last roll) you think it is.
     
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  4. ali

    ali Experienced and Respected on the Forum

    Yeah, I know, dunno either!!
    My previous turn and thud approach had a 'thank f for that, right next rep' feel. Once I made it a roll and practiced it as a roll, unweighted and doing some rolling patterns, I made a connection that it is a roll not a turn. Now weighted the move is more complete and oddly, surprisingly, for whatever reason, is much smoother, more efficient and easier. Some neural pathway, pattern thing, maybe. Who knows. Maybe this is an individual aspect too.....it wasn't there for me before and now it is. If it is there for someone to begin with, then maybe it isn't going to stand out as much. Interesting though, since discovering this in my practice, watching some get ups, which would otherwise be seen as accomplished, there does seem a pattern for a lot of people: smoothness and control with a crash, bang wallop at the end. Just an observation, maybe it is overlooked. And, yeah, the move is complete, lift is finished, no big deal but it has made a difference to my overall movement quality, and true that could coincide with being better and stronger in the move generally. Still, every little helps.....
     
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  5. North Coast Miller

    North Coast Miller Experienced and Respected on the Forum

    I get it. Is possibly the effect of improving the roll to elbow by having a smoother descent. Is also possible you maintain better core activation by eliminating the thud factor.
     
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  6. pet'

    pet' More than 2,000 posts

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  7. Hasbro

    Hasbro Becoming A Strong Poster

    I see a lot of folks (including myself) that are guilty of turning the moves from hand to the elbow then to the floor into just one sloppy move. My roll to set the kb down could be better too. Thanks for the reminder.
     
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  8. jca17

    jca17 Strong Presence

    Great insight! I've seen StrongFirst teach concept, but didn't really connect it to the TGU. A lift isn't over until you've set the implement down. I've heard SF instructors say that the setup and finish are reps of their own. If you do five bench presses, you've done 7 moves: the setup from the rack, the 5 presses, and the rerack.
    It totally makes sense that how you end the move affects your previous rep. It's like follow through motions in sports: ok, yeah, where your arm is after release can't affect the path of a projectile, but the body works in movement patterns, and the intentionality of the finish will be present in movements leading up to it. The effect will be different for each person, but I will try to pay more attention to that in my next session.
     
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  9. WxHerk

    WxHerk Strong Presence Certified Instructor

    While teaching, I demo this with a shoe on my fist. I fall back from my hand to my back, skipping the elbow stop and bringing the shoe down onto my face. It gets the point across.
     
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  10. offwidth

    offwidth More than 2,000 posts

     
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  11. Harald Motz

    Harald Motz More than 1,000 posts Certified Instructor

    I like to do a few heavy floor presses in a row, then slow roll to elbow and slow down in a row, without lifting the straight leg. This is serious upper body work and gives a strong get up right from the start.
     
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  12. Marc

    Marc Strong Presence

    Starting to do TGU again after having dislocated my shoulder I really focused on perfect tecnique and I would say the end roll is really important. All to often one would race through the last seconds without paying the necessary attention (I was guilty of that, too). Try to drive through your planted heel while lowering down. This makes it much more smoother and safer.
     
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  13. WxHerk

    WxHerk Strong Presence Certified Instructor

    IMG_7748.JPG
    Nice!! I did some today..I now call those "Motz Ups." Notice the artwork on my training log:
     
  14. Marc

    Marc Strong Presence

    Those bells look awsome! Did you paint them yourself?

    On topic:
    One thing I also disvovered while paying extra attention to TGU is about the roll to elbow position:
    Push hard trough your heel of the planted foot. In addition to that press your unloaded elbow hard into the ground and at the same time imagine you are holding onto a sturdy pole with your unloaded hand and while pressing through your heel and elbow kinda pull yourself up.
     
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  15. Kettlebelephant

    Kettlebelephant Experienced and Respected on the Forum

    I agree that a lot of people don't pay much attention to those important transitions (see my earlier post),
    but we are NOT talking about that!
    What you refer to is not the "end roll". What you talk about are the "hand to elbow"- & "elbow to floor".
    This...
    15.jpg
    ... @ali is talking about the very last roll, when the transitions you talk about (the ones in the pic above) have already happened.
    He talks about when you roll over to place the KB on the floor.
    This...
    14.jpg

    I just wanted to clarify this so people talk about the same "roll" and not about two different ones, because that could confuse people.



    I thought about @ali 's original post and payed extra attention to the last roll over the last two days. I came to the conclusion that the KB size matters a lot during the last roll. For TGUs I use the 36 and heavier. The KBs are so big that you can't really roll over. You only have to complete ~20% of the ROM of the last roll and the KB already rests safely on the floor.
    If you do it with e.g. a 16 the roll becomes much more important, because the "way to safety" is much longer.
     
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  16. WxHerk

    WxHerk Strong Presence Certified Instructor

    No, I didn't. I have had the tremendously great fortune of training with USAF Combat Control Team (CCT) Instructors. They are among our Special Operations Forces, rouughly equivalent to Navy Seals, Green Berets, etc. and an absolutely first rate group of gentlemen. Anyway, their students painted both of those bells. My last name is Fox, thus the painted Fox.
     
  17. ali

    ali Experienced and Respected on the Forum

    @Kettlebelephant, good point. OTOH would you not have to pay greater attention to the broken arm position?
     
  18. Kettlebelephant

    Kettlebelephant Experienced and Respected on the Forum

    By "broken arm" do you mean keeping the KB close to the ribs otherwise it would pull your arm around like when you lose an armwrestling match?
    Yes, the heavier the KB the more attention must go into that part, but it's a mechanically strong position. Not paying attention especially there could lead to a broken arm or some kind of elbow dislocation injury.
    I agree that you have to be especially aware about your upper body during the last roll.

    Every part of the TGU is important and needs to be performed with 100% concentration.
    I just don't think the last roll has a profound effect on the overall movement when you compare it e.g. to the "first roll", the "roll to elbow" or the "hand to elbow" and "elbow to floor".
    Most "sloppiness" I see with the TGU are the "roll to elbow", because people use a lot of momentum to get up to the elbow instead of a controlled movement or the already mentioned "hand to elbow"+"elbow to floor", because instead of resisting gravity and controlling the movement many people just let themselfes fall backwards.
     
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  19. Harald Motz

    Harald Motz More than 1,000 posts Certified Instructor

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