Other/Mixed Looking where to start?? Please kindly advise

[SOUTHPAW]

Hi all. Probably like so many others I am looking for advice on where to begin my StrongFirst kettlebell journey and would greatly appreciate any recommendations.

A little about myself. I’m 34, I own a Boxing Gym and also coach as Boxing Coach / Personal Trainer. I’d say I have a fair amount of experience in strength training and some knowledge kettlebells. But more Sport style having attended IKFF certification courses and integrated a fair amount of Sport Style KB lifting into my strength training.

Previously, I used predominately barbells for my strength training and Kettlebells more as a conditioning tool. I’m interested in shifting my strength training into purely KBs, mostly because of their efficiency in terms of time invested vs results. I feel changing over to the Hard Style, StrongFirst approach fits my goals better than using Sport Style training.

I understand that S&S seems to be the starting point for most and then progressing onto ROP. I was thinking about diving straight into ROP but noticed that it lacked any squatting motions and lower body work outside of hinge patterns. I have always been quite top heavy and can press a fair amount of weight in comparison to my squat. I always hoped that I could balance out this discrepancy. Ultimately I wanted to build the body as a whole rather than focusing on upper body pressing.

So based on my long winded outline of my goals a training background where would you guys recommend for me to start?

Thanks in advance for any advice given.

 

[John K]

Hi all. Probably like so many others I am looking for advice on where to begin my StrongFirst kettlebell journey and would greatly appreciate any recommendations.

A little about myself. I’m 34, I own a Boxing Gym and also coach as Boxing Coach / Personal Trainer. I’d say I have a fair amount of experience in strength training and some knowledge kettlebells. But more Sport style having attended IKFF certification courses and integrated a fair amount of Sport Style KB lifting into my strength training.

Previously, I used predominately barbells for my strength training and Kettlebells more as a conditioning tool. I’m interested in shifting my strength training into purely KBs, mostly because of their efficiency in terms of time invested vs results. I feel changing over to the Hard Style, StrongFirst approach fits my goals better than using Sport Style training.

I understand that S&S seems to be the starting point for most and then progressing onto ROP. I was thinking about diving straight into ROP but noticed that it lacked any squatting motions and lower body work outside of hinge patterns. I have always been quite top heavy and can press a fair amount of weight in comparison to my squat. I always hoped that I could balance out this discrepancy. Ultimately I wanted to build the body as a whole rather than focusing on upper body pressing.

So based on my long winded outline of my goals a training background where would you guys recommend for me to start?

Thanks in advance for any advice given.

Have you read ETK? If you want to do ROP and still have some squat, slot a squat in on a variety day.

What movements are you competent performing hard style? What exactly are you training for? Strength, hypertrophy, conditioning, sports performance, lose fat, etc.?

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Wolfskill]

Similar situation, martial arts instructor strength training for 18 years. Simple and sinister is definitely hard to wrap your head around if you've done the barbell routines that hit every muscle from multiple angles. I did it up to timeless with a 40KG, 2 sets of swings with 44 and 4 of the get ups with 44. Also ran ROP, but once I got to doing 4 rung ladders with a 32kg my shoulders were too beat up pressing 3 days a week and I had to switch. I added in double front squats on a variety day.
Currently I'm doing enter the kettlebell plus, which was an article Pavel wrote for Milo magazine and I'd say it's probably my favorite program so far. Coming from Wendlers 5/3/1 program on barbell its still a little light on legs, but at least it hits front squats, goblet squats and pistols. You do grinds 2x per week with 2 different press variations, a squat variation and a pullup variation, then 2 ballistic days with either a swing or a snatch and some variation of a jerk. Fulfills my need to do more stuff.
Next month I'm attending a kettlebell workshop that says it has a variation of ROP for hypertrophy which I'm interested in. I've been eating a pure carnivore diet for the last 6 weeks and I feel awesome and strong, but weight is dropping off quick, with a jiu jitsu comp coming up in 8 weeks I have a feeling I might be dropping a weight class again.

 

[sizzlefuzz]

I think S&S is a great place to start for anyone. Lots of "meat on the bone" in that even if you only run it for 6-8 weeks. If I were you I would just S&S through the summer and do something like RoP or another, longer session-oriented program when the weather turns in the fall (assuming you live in the northern hemisphere, with 4 seasons, that is!).

 

[SOUTHPAW]

Have you read ETK? If you want to do ROP and still have some squat, slot a squat in on a variety day.

What movements are you competent performing hard style? What exactly are you training for? Strength, hypertrophy, conditioning, sports performance, lose fat, etc.?

Welcome to the forum!

Hey thanks for your quick response and the kind welcome.

Yes I’ve read ETK. I considered hitting Goblet / Double Rack squats, Pistol Squat progressions on the variety day similar to how you suggested.

I can competently clean, jerk, snatch, press… basically competent in most movements. I’d say coming from an IKFF sport style background the only movements, although I need to adjust my form, breathing pattern and body pressurisation to hard style . I also need to work on is the TGU.

For years I’ve trained some form of ‘conjugate’. For those reading that don’t know. That’s a barbell program containing x2 ‘max effort strength days’, x2 ‘speed / explosive days’, and high volume accessory movements.

I’d say my goals are mostly sports performance and general health (joint health, mobility) but also I’d like to be able to maintain muscle mass. I’m still relatively young at 34 but spend 6 days a week letting someone punch my arms for a living. Training big powerlifting movements is tough on the CNS and joints. KB lifting movements seem to tick the boxes for me in terms of working explosive strength, mobility and the relatively high volumes seem to be great for hypertrophy.

 

[SOUTHPAW]

I’m absolutely willing to stay open minded and be guided in the right direction. If starting with S&S is that’s the best place to kick off the training into Hard Style, then I’m down open to give it a shot. Pavel’s programs are so simple it’s intriguing to see how my body responds to them.

 

[SOUTHPAW]

I think S&S is a great place to start for anyone. Lots of "meat on the bone" in that even if you only run it for 6-8 weeks. If I were you I would just S&S through the summer and do something like RoP or another, longer session-oriented program when the weather turns in the fall (assuming you live in the northern hemisphere, with 4 seasons, that is!).

Like the suggestion! I’m going to read over the S&S section in Return of the KB as consider this option. Thanks

 

[SOUTHPAW]

Similar situation, martial arts instructor strength training for 18 years. Simple and sinister is definitely hard to wrap your head around if you've done the barbell routines that hit every muscle from multiple angles. I did it up to timeless with a 40KG, 2 sets of swings with 44 and 4 of the get ups with 44. Also ran ROP, but once I got to doing 4 rung ladders with a 32kg my shoulders were too beat up pressing 3 days a week and I had to switch. I added in double front squats on a variety day.
Currently I'm doing enter the kettlebell plus, which was an article Pavel wrote for Milo magazine and I'd say it's probably my favorite program so far. Coming from Wendlers 5/3/1 program on barbell its still a little light on legs, but at least it hits front squats, goblet squats and pistols. You do grinds 2x per week with 2 different press variations, a squat variation and a pullup variation, then 2 ballistic days with either a swing or a snatch and some variation of a jerk. Fulfills my need to do more stuff.
Next month I'm attending a kettlebell workshop that says it has a variation of ROP for hypertrophy which I'm interested in. I've been eating a pure carnivore diet for the last 6 weeks and I feel awesome and strong, but weight is dropping off quick, with a jiu jitsu comp coming up in 8 weeks I have a feeling I might be dropping a weight class again.

Hey thanks for sharing your experience. Seems we have a very similar background so it’s great to see how you approached your training.

I’m interested in the Kettlebell Plus program thinking of doing S&S for a short period and then move into ROP, adding Rack Squats or Goblet Squats into the variety days.

You are absolutely right in saying it’s hard to wrap your head around some of Pavel’s programming. Right now I can’t imagine S&S can adequately give enough stimulus for my body to possibly maintain the muscle I have. But I’ve been shocked by programs in the past and very willing to give it a go.

 

[John K]

Hey thanks for your quick response and the kind welcome.

Yes I’ve read ETK. I considered hitting Goblet / Double Rack squats, Pistol Squat progressions on the variety day similar to how you suggested.

I can competently clean, jerk, snatch, press… basically competent in most movements. I’d say coming from an IKFF sport style background the only movements, although I need to adjust my form, breathing pattern and body pressurisation to hard style . I also need to work on is the TGU.

For years I’ve trained some form of ‘conjugate’. For those reading that don’t know. That’s a barbell program containing x2 ‘max effort strength days’, x2 ‘speed / explosive days’, and high volume accessory movements.

I’d say my goals are mostly sports performance and general health (joint health, mobility) but also I’d like to be able to maintain muscle mass. I’m still relatively young at 34 but spend 6 days a week letting someone punch my arms for a living. Training big powerlifting movements is tough on the CNS and joints. KB lifting movements seem to tick the boxes for me in terms of working explosive strength, mobility and the relatively high volumes seem to be great for hypertrophy.

Honestly it sounds like the world is your oyster and you can pick something that you think will meet your goals. ETK/ROP is great because of those two variety days, you can "round out" whatever you think you need.

Another one to look at is ETK+ from an article in a magazine called Milo - the base template has two "types" of days, a strength day with two press and one squat slots, and a ballistics day with one pull and one push slot; you rotate heavy-medium-light days.

I would just be cognizant that if you run ROP it'll probably be a wavier run rather than a forced progression - some days you'll be more beat up and might hit fewer rungs or ladders than previous, and that's OK.