Managing fatigue with reps in reserve over 5 week progression

[Gary W]

Not my idea but wondering what the people here think of this way of managing fatigue and progressing with high rep (for me) bodyweight.

Week 1 4 reps away from failure
Week 2 3 reps away
week 3 2 reps away
week 4 1 rep away
week 5 deload and/or test maxes

Every other day i do a push pull squat for 3 sets each, working towards 25 reps then look for harder progression, 15 for Pullups.
Does it Look like something that can work?

 

[3letterslong]

Every other day i do a push pull squat for 3 sets each, working towards 25 reps then look for harder progression,

Something that works really well for me is to pick a volume (i.e. 50 reps, 3 minutes worth of work, etc.) and do them in fewer and fewer sets. I find I adapt very quickly using this method and I think it's because the total volume stays the same.

 

[Gary W]

Something that works really well for me is to pick a volume (i.e. 50 reps, 3 minutes worth of work, etc.) and do them in fewer and fewer sets. I find I adapt very quickly using this method and I think it's because the total volume stays the same.

Ive been doing similar i think, so say my rep goal is 30 pullups ill try and get in 3 sets over time so might go 998 left over 4 after a while its 999 3 1099 2 etc

Problem i have with doing that over time fatigue adds up as im constantly pushing

 

[3letterslong]

Ive been doing similar i think, so say my rep goal is 30 pullups ill try and get in 3 sets over time so might go 998 left over 4 after a while its 999 3 1099 2 etc

Problem i have with doing that over time fatigue adds up as im constantly pushing

I had the same problem. I found the solution to be starting with more sets (5-10, increasing in size until I'm down to 2-4) and to not increase the density (the time I do the work in is the same, so now I'm doing 3 sets in the time it used to take me to do 10 sets -- as the sets get bigger, so do the breaks).

 

[bluejeff]

Two thoughts come to my mind:

-how are you determining how many reps you have in reserve? Are you doing periodic testing to absolute failure (e.g. you can't possibly do another rep no matter how hard you try)?

-when you say 30 reps, do you mean 30 in one set or 30 in one training session?

Problem i have with doing that over time fatigue adds up as im constantly pushing

My suggestions are:
a) spend longer at a given rep range to allow your body to adapt, i.e. progress your reps more slowly over time. It's not as exciting, maybe even boring, but wait until a given rep/set range is easy before adding. It is, however, a great way to solidify your gains.

b) do some kind of "wave cycle." That is, add reps until you start to feel that fatigue, then go back a bit and work back up.
For example: Say you worked up to 998 and you feel like it's getting brutal. Go back to something like 986 and work back up. Hope that makes some kind of sense without me writing too much.

c) A different option: If you have the schedule, pick a total number of reps for that entire day. Do your pull ups either grease the groove style or in a few shorter session spread over the day. Gradually shrink the number of sets by escalating your density throughout the day. Then you can be fresher for your other movements. You may be surprised at how many total reps you can get in this way, especially if you are limiting your training days to 3 per week.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Not my idea but wondering what the people here think of this way of managing fatigue and progressing with high rep (for me) bodyweight.

Week 1 4 reps away from failure
Week 2 3 reps away
week 3 2 reps away
week 4 1 rep away
week 5 deload and/or test maxes

Every other day i do a push pull squat for 3 sets each, working towards 25 reps then look for harder progression, 15 for Pullups.
Does it Look like something that can work?

It's usually how I do most, if not all plans by Geoff Neupert

 

[silveraw]

Not my idea but wondering what the people here think of this way of managing fatigue and progressing with high rep (for me) bodyweight.

Week 1 4 reps away from failure
Week 2 3 reps away
week 3 2 reps away
week 4 1 rep away
week 5 deload and/or test maxes

Every other day i do a push pull squat for 3 sets each, working towards 25 reps then look for harder progression, 15 for Pullups.
Does it Look like something that can work?

You kinda reinvented a modern PL cycle for bodyweight exercises. It will take a bit to get the right feel for everything, but it looks solid.

Honestly I'd skip the test maxes part and either jump right into week 1 again or deload depending on how you feel. The RIR/RPE will scale with you pretty easily. Maybe rotate movements every once in a while.

 

[Gary W]

how are you determining how many reps you have in reserve? Are you doing periodic testing to absolute failure (e.g. you can't possibly do another rep no matter how hard you try)?

So that 5th week I'd do only 2 workouts where i test to technical failure

when you say 30 reps, do you mean 30 in one set or 30 in one training session

30 in one session, no high rep i know, normally 3 sets of 9ish
Pushups dips rows etc is normally around 60reps per session

Honestly I'd skip the test maxes part and either jump right into week 1 again or deload depending on how you feel. The RIR/RPE will scale with you pretty easily. Maybe rotate movements every once in a while.

Yeah so that 5th week i pick a new excersise that i know i can get atleast 8 reps of and test it to technical failure
Going to do ring pushups test soon where i know ill get 12-15.
Also thought about going straight back into week one as that is kinda a deload week, id only be doing 3x6 Pullups 3x14 dips legs and core using 4 RIR

For legs ive been doing 3x 50 reverse lunges or 10x15 heel elevated constant tension squats with 30s rest but id only use the above reps in reserve for upper body as lower is more conditioning to help with hiking

 

[bluejeff]

Also thought about going straight back into week one as that is kinda a deload week

You probably won't need to go all the way back to week one. If you progress over the course of 4 weeks, on week 5 I would go back to week 2 and progress again. The idea is that each time you go back and progress up, you end up "higher" than you did at the end of the previous cycle.

If you feel like you need to go back to week one (for any cycle), that's fine. It might take a couple trips through the same cycle to make the adaptations, especially once reps get pretty high.

Maybe you've already considered it, but another option would be to do your higher rep cycles (maybe 2-3 of them) and then do 2-3 cycles of higher weight using a weight vest or belt (assuming your rings are secured well enough ). Increasing your 1RM or even your 3-5RM using added weight will often also translate to higher reps at normal bodyweight.

 

[Gary W]

Ok so the problem im having this week, week 3 which would be 2 reps away from failure.
So when i tested Pullups for example i did 3 5 10, so 10 was my max, but when in practice this week i did 888 and that last set was a struggle and definitely to failure next week im supposed to do 999 but know it will more likely be 988.
im resting 2 mins between sets, should i try 3mins??
Im considering using 9 as my max and restarting the cycle next week.
Its the same situation with a couple other excersises.

 

[Spartan Agoge]

Ok so the problem im having this week, week 3 which would be 2 reps away from failure.
So when i tested Pullups for example i did 3 5 10, so 10 was my max, but when in practice this week i did 888 and that last set was a struggle and definitely to failure next week im supposed to do 999 but know it will more likely be 988.
im resting 2 mins between sets, should i try 3mins??
Im considering using 9 as my max and restarting the cycle next week.
Its the same situation with a couple other excersises.

I am not saying this is the case for you, but for me, when my max drops, either my 1rm, or my max reps, it means that I train more than I can recover. When I reduce the volume, my strength goes up again.

Maybe you need to reduce the volume or the frequency and nit your max reps.

 

[Gary W]

I am not saying this is the case for you, but for me, when my max drops, either my 1rm, or my max reps, it means that I train more than I can recover. When I reduce the volume, my strength goes up again.

Maybe you need to reduce the volume or the frequency and nit your max reps.

I dont think my max has dropped though, if i rest a couple of days and test again im sure id get 10 after warm up of 3 reps 5 reps

 

[Steve Freides]

@Gary W, it doesn't look like there's much backoff time in there. How are you managing the "and/or" week?

week 5 deload and/or test maxes

Consider only testing your max every 3 times through the cycle and taking a big drop in volume, intensity, or preferably both when you back off.

Also consider shortening the cycle by a week so that you deload once every 4 weeks instead of once every 5 weeks.

-S

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

how are you determining how many reps you have in reserve?

Rest In Reserve

It guessing. No one really knows; which is an issue.

The only way to really know is to push to failure.

With an individual can make gain with this method; reasearch shows pushing to closer to failure elicits a greater Training Effect.

Training To Failure

Training to failure need to be limited, performed infrequently.

That because it is physically and mentally depleting.

) do some kind of "wave cycle." That is, add reps until you start to feel that fatigue, then go back a bit and work back up.

Periodization Training

This is the fundamental principle of ensuring long term gains rather than "Deloading" for one or two sessions.

Periodization Training works for athletes and everyone else.

Most individual lack knowledge on Periodization Training and how to effective utilize it.

Increasing your 1RM or even your 3-5RM using added weight will often also translate to higher reps

Dr Brad Scoenfeld's Hypertrophy Rearch

Increasing Max Strength works.

Hypertrophy Training falls more into Endurance Training with Light to Moderate Repetition with Short Rest Periods.

Schoenfeld's research determine three things ensures optimal Hypertrophy/Endurance Training Progress. One of them is...

Mechanical Tension

This is Maximum Strength Training.

It allows Bodybuilders/Ensurance individauls to either perform Heavier Hypertrophy Sets or More Repetition in an Endurance Exercise; which stimulate greater gains.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

im resting 2 mins between sets, should i try 3mins??

ATP Muscle Restoration

ATP is necessary for Recovery.

Resotration Period

1) 30 Second of Rest Restores appoximately 50%.

2) 45 Seconds of Rest Restores right at 80%.

3) 3 minutes or longer is needed for Complete ATP Restoration.

Pavel

I have posted Pavel's video on this.

As per Pavel, a Rest Period of up to 15 minutes may be needed for complete Strength Recovery Restoration.

 

[Gary W]

@Gary W, it doesn't look like there's much backoff time in there. How are you managing the "and/or" week?



Consider only testing your max every 3 times through the cycle and taking a big drop in volume, intensity, or preferably both when you back off.

Also consider shortening the cycle by a week so that you deload once every 4 weeks instead of once every 5 weeks.

-S

I haven't got to that week yet but plan was to go back to 4 reps away from failure.

So far ive done week 1 4 reps from fail week 2 3 reps from fail and im in week 3 which is 2 reps from fail but feels more like 1 rep from fail or even on the last set actual failure

Reason i chose 5th week was due to being on call for work every 5 week so it works well.
can always try doing the deload every 4th week.

 

[Steve Freides]

I haven't got to that week yet but plan was to go back to 4 reps away from failure.

So far ive done week 1 4 reps from fail week 2 3 reps from fail and im in week 3 which is 2 reps from fail but feels more like 1 rep from fail

Reason i chose 5th week was due to being on call for work every 5 week so it works well.
can always try doing the deload every 4th week.

What do you have might work for you. I preferred to deload more often but I think some it’s a function of how far back you go when you start the next cycle. And I’m sure it’s also a function of just you and your lifting and how hard you push yourself, and all of that sort of stuff.

-S-

 

[Luis T. Gonzalez]

What I have been doing is breaking up a set into a ladder. So 3x5 turns into a ladder of 2,3,5, 2,3or a few ladders of 2,3,2,3…I still get the same volume in with far less to no fatigue at all. Did the same on my heavy deadlift day and resulted in very little fatigue.

 

[Anders]

I thought about doing it the same as you. Right now I am increasing the sets and keeping the reps the same. I am using push-ups, rows and lunges.

I have not executed the reps away from failure plan yet, but I was thinking about doing it something like this.

Week 1: Not making an effort at all and stopping before feeling any sense of tiredness (in terms of reps).
Week 2: Making a somewhat bigger effort and accepting a slight feeling of tiredness in the muscle (in terms of reps)
Week 3: Making quite a big effort and accepting a considerable feeling of tiredness in the muscle (in terms of reps).

There is two ways of doing this: Either you make this differentiation between weeks. That is the higher the number of week, the lower the numbers of reps in reserve. The other way of doing it is making this differentiation between light, middle and heavy day inside the same week. Monday: 1 rep in reserve, Wednesday 3 reps in reserve etc etc.

 

[Gary W]

I feel the problem might be rest related as doin 3 reps 5 reps then test 10reps theres not so much fatigue but in practice today id already done 3 sets of weighted pushups 2 reps from failure then the first set of 8 Pullups went up ok second set of 8 a bit hard 3rd set i definitely couldn't have done any more reps than 8