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Old Forum Martial Artists - Which system is most like StrongFirst?

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Norski

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I've dabbled in a few forms of fighting and spent some time practicing Aikido and Hung Gar style Kung Fu.   Taking up "fighting" is about as vague as taking up "exercise."  Most people think of running for the former and Taekwondo board breaking for the latter.

I'm curious to hear input from people with a martial arts background who also practice our RKC system.  I've studied a lot about various schools and like the idea of combining a hard style with a soft style (a la, ballistics and grinds, tension and relaxation), strikes, submission and manipulation (different modalities that all point to the same purpose) but I also have woken up to the fact that to truly understand a path, one must walk it first.

I'd also like to choose an art that won't take two years just to get good at but can also be studied deeply for life (most people can swing a 32kg fairly soon after some good coaching and practice but it takes years to become a "perfect mover").  Nothing has to be flashy (no crossfit/dd marketing here) but esoteric is just fine as long as it's very effective (getups are incredibly weird at first but once you've earned a heavy one the choice is obvious.)  Belts and ranks are completely optional (You earn your keep here with your character, your gains, and your effort to get them and earning your Level II shows you did a LOT more than just pay gym dues for "x" amount of time)  When it comes to physical training I've found my path and in terms of fighting I'd like to walk a path that intertwines with StrongFirst.

I've considered: Brazilian Jujitsu, Jeet Kune Do, Wing Chun Kung Fu, Muy Thai, Judo, Krav Maga Kempo, Aikido and Tai Chi Quan.  I practice internal alchemy (Taoist energy work) so learning a system that has some focus on manipulating energy/chi through acupuncture points wouldn't be out of my grasp, but I'd like to be able to progress and tie it all together as I continue instead of learning two constructs that aren't as complementary as others would be.

Sorry for the long post, but it's a complex question and I'm looking for a very precise answer.  My body can handle just about anything (I'm 22), my goals are to be able to be a versatile and effective fighter and to have a system that I can gain from and be enlightened from for as long as I follow it.  I have no desire to compete in tournaments, but I'd like to have a range from lethal all the way down to "that could really suck if it was fully applied" in the same skill set that can be applied to any encounter.

Any input or signposts would be greatly appreciated.  I live in Salt Lake City if that helps.
 
I used to do  Hung Gar for many years until a Akijujutsu master broke my neck at my 1st class(i had to remove a disc b/w my c5/c6)

I love Hung Gar but if I think pak mei, southern praying mantis, xing yi and ba ji  are most like Hard Style/Strong First.

 
 
I'd like to suggest that the teacher, and the type of training, are more important than what you train.

I think any school that emphasizes repetition of the basics, partner drills, and practical application of skills should be pretty good.

I've attended a number of schools over the years and some places definitely offered better training than others. In some classes I barely broke a sweat, and didn't develop usable skill. Other classes offered a great workout and cooperative partner drills but I was left wondering if I could actually apply the things I was taught. Some instructors didn't seem to understand how to train people and other instructors emphasized learning the art rather than developing actual fighting skills.

Wow, I'm starting to sound kind of cynical. But you're kind of limited to what you have access to and what you can afford. I would suggest visiting the schools in your area, attend a few classes, and see which one offers the type of training your looking for.
 
I was thinking of how to write up what Chris H just wrote. Instructor is more important than art. Person is more important then style.

 

If you want easy applicable understanding of violence I'd go to a TFT course. If you want something more lasting I'd start checking around dojos around your area. Good luck.

 
 
I agree with the above with the addition of there has to be practical sparring and live sparring. Compliant drills will not prepare you for an actual conflict.

 
 
I've been taking Jeet Kune Do for over three years now (just a couple months away from testing for my Black Belt).  Like others have said, the instructor really makes the difference.

Though, instructors aside, I did quite a bit of research before I started, and really like the idea behind JKD.  Sure, we do a lot repetitive jab, cross, hook, roundkick drills, but we also implement effective self-defense skills too (obviously only effective if you can pull them off). JKD also implements Wing Chun concepts as long as takedowns / ground-work. They don't take the place of Wing Chun or BJJ, though.

My favorite thing about JKD: you make it your own. There are no set of moves that are strictly JKD. You take what you like and what works for your body type, and make it your own JKD. My school also has Filipino martial arts once a week, and an MMA class once a week that changes the art every month: Wing Chun, BJJ, Savate, Silat, Capoeera, and Muay Thai. I pick and choose what I like and feel that I can effectively pull off from each one of these arts.

Hopefully that helps!
 
I'm partial to the grappling styles myself as that is what I practice and have found a great deal of benefit combing Hardstyle practice with my training on the mats. My votes would go for something along the lines of Jiu-Jitsu, Judo, or Sambo (which in my opinion I think gets written off too much because any Sambo guy I've ever seen on the mats brings some awesome intensity and there are a lot of great concepts they teach).

Being in SLC I would think Unified BJJ shouldn't be too far from you and anyone from Master Pedro Sauer could give you some great insight to the philosophies that would carry you through your development along the way.

Whatever path you choose it sounds like you have a great mindset going into the journey.

Best wishes to you sir!

 
 
It seems obvious to me that aikido fits your bill very well.

Now go and find a good teacher...
 
For a second I was gonna write that the obvious answer is Aikijutsu cause they teach you to break necks the first day but I felt it might have offended Toby, but the joke was to great and must come out.
 
I practice and teach Hung Ga - our way is 100% compatible with StrongFirst principles. Pavel's teaching helped me tremendously to understand my art, especially the "internal" principles. Couple of examples:

• "five fingers grab the floor" (ng ji ja dei)

• "force comes form the ground up" (lik chung dei hei)

• "breath sinks to Cinnanbar field" (hei cham daan tin): increasing of the intraabdominal pressure

• "sinking of the elbows and shoulders" (cham jaang lok bok)

• "holowing the chest, raising back" (ham hung bat bui): hollow position

• "interplay of hardness and softness " (yau ping jai): grinds/balistics, tension/relaxation, yin/yang.

Check out http://practicalhungkyun.com/

Anyway, style does not matter - teacher does. All good schools of martial arts will only profit from incorporating StrongFirst principles and training methodology, be it traditional martial arts, modern combatives, grappling or MMA.
 
If You do like KB , then why dont You choose the Fighting art, that does match them?

Enter the- SYSTEMA Russian Fighting System with two world headoffices, one in Toronto (Vladimir Vasiliev) and another one in Moscow (Mihail Ryabko), there are few other world class masters allround, like Val Riazanov and Mikhail Starkov beeing next.

But trust me from a lots of real life experience, there is no body ever on the street to bother You after couple of years training the systema, nobody, unless his also training systema, but then You will know him, and he would never bother You as well.

So, thats my professional advice, i am a European Champion in Full Contact Taekwondo, national champion in sambo, 2nd dan in taekwondo and hapkido, been in pecial forces for a time, etc., etc., but once i need it the best martial arts to suit my needs to run the nightclub security @ the bars in Downtown Detroit, my choice was obvious, nothing else works like it, at least in the last 15 years i havent seen anything to even come close to it.

But thats my professional choice and advice, and i didnt say it, the training will be easy, it will be especially hard on Your ego, if You are realy good @ any other martial art..

Whatever You choose, good luck with it.
It will be better if You choose anything, then if You wont. so sooner start training..

Good Luck.
 
I think Goju Ryu has a lot of similarity with the principles for the Swing and TGU in Pavel's new book and I know that Sanchin Kata was mentioned in Power to the People.  While Sanchin kata is not an exclusive kata to only Goju Ryu many of the finer points exclusive to Goju Ryu in performing the kata line up perfectly with the hard-style of SFG.  When Pavel mentions that the TGU is like the Kata of SFG, I think he may have had in mind Sanchin kata.  I could write a column on the similarities of Sanchin.

In terms of sparring, some Goju Ryu schools/organizations are moving towards iri kumi kumite which is a form of full contact Free (Jiyu Kumite) sparring inclusive of face punching, tegumi (wrestling) and ground submission/attack.

In whatever martial art you choose, the teacher makes the difference.
 
Russian Systema.

Hard, soft  - Relaxtion, tension - internal, external.

A lifetime is not enough to master it.

Requires the removal of ego and a healthy dose of humility.

If you're lucky enough to live near a good System teacher experience it for yourself to see if the 'reality' of it matches your needs.

All the best!
 
I had never heard of Systema before this thread, but if this many people on the board are recommending it then I figure it deserves a look. Turns out there is a certified Systema instructor doing classes a half mile from my house! Planning on checking it out this week, thanks to everyone who brought it up.
 
This has been a very cool thread with some great replies.  I'm going to begin a journey to find the best instructor my city has to offer.  Lots of cool input!  Thank you everyone.
 
Connor,

The instructor can make or break the system.
A bad instructor can make a practical system impractical or seem impossibly complex.
A good instructor can strip down what appears to be flashy or impractical and make it simple and practical.

Decide on your goals, then seek out instructors who have accomplished them or helped others accomplish them.

Take your time. Shop around.
Do your research, get references, research the instructor, do a background check, watch a few classes.
 
"A good instructor can strip down what appears to be flashy or impractical and make it simple and practical."

This was a wonderful quote worth writing on your hand when going dojo searching.
 
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