Other/Mixed Max Tension

[Jamie P]

I have 20 years of experience training but this is an important question. I feel like I'm generating more actual strength and tension at about 70 to 80%. Let me try to explain. (Simple example: a bicep curl)

* curling 5lb dumbells ( forcing all my effort in contracting with no help from more weight to make it easier to contract the muscles harder)

*curling 40 lb dumbells ( The weight is helping my brain say to the muscles contract hard to handle the load! Plus I'm forcing maximal tension to handle more weight in the future)

* Curling 55 lb dumbells ( Eventhough I can lift it the weight is so heavy that I feel like my brain is trying to force the muscles to relax before they get hurt) I can't seem to generate that hard contraction. Eventhough it's heavier weight?

Is it all in my head?

 

[Bill Lets]

Is it all in my head?

I am sure Dr Scientificus will present research a mile deep and a mile wide but it could be what’s called “the mind muscle connection”.

 

[John K]

I have 20 years of experience training but this is an important question. I feel like I'm generating more actual strength and tension at about 70 to 80%. Let me try to explain. (Simple example: a bicep curl)

* curling 5lb dumbells ( forcing all my effort in contracting with no help from more weight to make it easier to contract the muscles harder)

*curling 40 lb dumbells ( The weight is helping my brain say to the muscles contract hard to handle the load! Plus I'm forcing maximal tension to handle more weight in the future)

* Curling 55 lb dumbells ( Eventhough I can lift it the weight is so heavy that I feel like my brain is trying to force the muscles to relax before they get hurt) I can't seem to generate that hard contraction. Eventhough it's heavier weight?

Is it all in my head?

Sounds like it. I’ve never used a maximal weight and felt my muscles try to relax.

 

[Adam R Mundorf]

I have 20 years of experience training but this is an important question. I feel like I'm generating more actual strength and tension at about 70 to 80%. Let me try to explain. (Simple example: a bicep curl)

* curling 5lb dumbells ( forcing all my effort in contracting with no help from more weight to make it easier to contract the muscles harder)

*curling 40 lb dumbells ( The weight is helping my brain say to the muscles contract hard to handle the load! Plus I'm forcing maximal tension to handle more weight in the future)

* Curling 55 lb dumbells ( Eventhough I can lift it the weight is so heavy that I feel like my brain is trying to force the muscles to relax before they get hurt) I can't seem to generate that hard contraction. Eventhough it's heavier weight?

Is it all in my head?

Well, Pavel mentions a lot in his books that fighters hit hardest around 70 to 80% of max effort/tension. You can tense so much that you pre-fatigue yourself before even hitting the key parts of the movement.

You don't want to be hardstyle tying your shoes, just enough tension to complete the lift and no more. You want to dial the tension knob and through practice, you'll learn how to precisely dial that knob more efficiently.

 

[Jamie P]

Sounds like it. I’ve never used a maximal weight and felt my muscles try to relax.

Thanks

 

[Jamie P]

Well, Pavel mentions a lot in his books that fighters hit hardest around 70 to 80% of max effort/tension. You can tense so much that you pre-fatigue yourself before even hitting the key parts of the movement.

You don't want to be hardstyle tying your shoes, just enough tension to complete the lift and no more. You want to dial the tension knob and through practice, you'll learn how to precisely dial that knob more efficiently.

Thanks I appreciate the feedback

 

[Jamie P]

I am sure Dr Scientificus will present research a mile deep and a mile wide but it could be what’s call “the mind muscular connection”.

Thanks

 

[North Coast Miller]

I have 20 years of experience training but this is an important question. I feel like I'm generating more actual strength and tension at about 70 to 80%. Let me try to explain. (Simple example: a bicep curl)

* curling 5lb dumbells ( forcing all my effort in contracting with no help from more weight to make it easier to contract the muscles harder)

*curling 40 lb dumbells ( The weight is helping my brain say to the muscles contract hard to handle the load! Plus I'm forcing maximal tension to handle more weight in the future)

* Curling 55 lb dumbells ( Eventhough I can lift it the weight is so heavy that I feel like my brain is trying to force the muscles to relax before they get hurt) I can't seem to generate that hard contraction. Eventhough it's heavier weight?

Is it all in my head?

Could be the heavier weight is pulling secondary muscle groups out of whack, reducing the length of your lever arm.

Eg curls you might be getting your elbows a little further in front of you with the lighter loading, which will increase tension at the bottom of the ROM. If your elbows drift back a little it'll change how the bicep is loaded.

 

[marlowe]

Oh, this is absolutely right. Often our 1RM is not done with perfect form because we need to cheat to lift it. We've all lifted beyond our working weights and felt like we couldn't get the right muscles to work. When you're working with 1RMs , often, you're just trying to get the weight up by any means necessary.

Of course, we could discuss the real meaning of 1RM and talk about how, if it technique is broken so the lift can be completed, it's not a real rep... fair enough, I'm just trying to say that heavy weights can lead to non-optimal muscle recruitment and tension production.

We also know that our nervous system does protect the body by not allowing it to exert itself if not under certain conditions. That we're not capable of producing the same amount of force under the same load if the lift is performed on an unstable surface is a known fact, which isnoften attributed to the body protecting itself. Maybe something similar happens to muscles presented with an abnormally heavy weight.

However, I'd say this varies from lift to lift. Try a 1RM with a big compound lift (say, a deadlift) and see if you don't contract every fiber of your being as if you were trying to squeeze yourself into the 4th dimension.

 

[Steve Freides]

I have 20 years of experience training but this is an important question. I feel like I'm generating more actual strength and tension at about 70 to 80%. Let me try to explain. (Simple example: a bicep curl)

* curling 5lb dumbells ( forcing all my effort in contracting with no help from more weight to make it easier to contract the muscles harder)

*curling 40 lb dumbells ( The weight is helping my brain say to the muscles contract hard to handle the load! Plus I'm forcing maximal tension to handle more weight in the future)

* Curling 55 lb dumbells ( Eventhough I can lift it the weight is so heavy that I feel like my brain is trying to force the muscles to relax before they get hurt) I can't seem to generate that hard contraction. Eventhough it's heavier weight?

Is it all in my head?

Forgive me but I don't think you're asking the right question here.

We do most of our training in the range you mention, 70 to 80%. Above around 90%, ones focus has to be on moving the weight. I find 91-92% is my cutoff for perfect form, so I don't train above 92% very often because I want to practice with the best form I can. I don't think it's all in your head, I think what you're describing is normal.

NB: "easier to contract the muscles harder" is subjective. We would need data from some kind of measure of percentage of maximum voluntary contraction or similar to see what actually was going on.

-S-

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Context is key here..

The load and effort usually dictate the amount of tension needed..

A 60% for 5-7 reps is different from a PR attempt

This is why we teach the concept of dominanta at our courses.. The dominant thought is to compete the reps, the set safely and effectively. Tension feeds the goal, not becoming the goal itself

 

[bluejeff]

Oh, this is absolutely right. Often our 1RM is not done with perfect form because we need to cheat to lift it. We've all lifted beyond our working weights and felt like we couldn't get the right muscles to work. When you're working with 1RMs , often, you're just trying to get the weight up by any means necessary.

Of course, we could discuss the real meaning of 1RM and talk about how, if it technique is broken so the lift can be completed, it's not a real rep... fair enough, I'm just trying to say that heavy weights can lead to non-optimal muscle recruitment and tension production.

We also know that our nervous system does protect the body by not allowing it to exert itself if not under certain conditions. That we're not capable of producing the same amount of force under the same load if the lift is performed on an unstable surface is a known fact, which isnoften attributed to the body protecting itself. Maybe something similar happens to muscles presented with an abnormally heavy weight.

However, I'd say this varies from lift to lift. Try a 1RM with a big compound lift (say, a deadlift) and see if you don't contract every fiber of your being as if you were trying to squeeze yourself into the 4th dimension.

This would be my guess.

Just speaking anecdotally, I know that if I try to do any lift/move near my max, I don’t feel muscles engaging the same. As quoted above, we tend to try and complete the lift any way we can. At least that fits my experience.

 

[3letterslong]

Oh, this is absolutely right. Often our 1RM is not done with perfect form because we need to cheat to lift it. We've all lifted beyond our working weights and felt like we couldn't get the right muscles to work.

As someone who's frequently grappled with dysfunction, I am constantly rediscovering that lighter weights are better for my strength training for this exact reason.

Just this morning, i was doing heavy dumbbell jerks and it wasn't until the third set I got my glutes and quads to fire properly, leaving me to wonder what the eff muscles I was using for the first two sets. Shortly after I finished the workout, I knew i had to reduce all my weights because I was (once again) about to go off on an unproductive path.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

fighters hit hardest around 70 to 80% of max effort/tension. You can tense so much that you pre-fatigue yourself before even hitting the key parts of the movement.

Maximum Punch Force Production

Fighters hit hardest with Force Production that is near 100%.

Dr Stu McGill's Pulse Strength Training

McGill's research determined how Fighters are able Maximize Force Production.

Evidence of a Double Peak in Muscle Activation to Enhance Strike Speed and Force: An Example With Elite Mixed Martial Arts Fighters

Evidence of a Double Peak in Muscle Activation to Enhance... : The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research

mize speed and strike force. When muscle contracts, it increases in both force and stiffness. Force creates faster movement, but the corresponding stiffness slows the change of muscle shape and joint velocity. The purpose of this study was to investigate how this speed strength is accomplished...

journals.lww.com

Many of the strikes intend to create fast motion and finish with a very large striking force, demonstrating a "double peak" of muscle activity.

Muscles underwent a relaxation phase as speed of limb motion increased. A second peak was observed upon contact with the opponent (heavy bag).

...The contract-relax-contract pulsing cycle during forceful and quick strikes suggests that it may be fruitful to consider pulse training that involves not only the rate of muscle contraction but also the rate of muscle relaxation."
Matveyev (9) showed that elite athletes could have a muscle relaxation time of up to 8 times faster than nonathletes. The same work suggested that although relaxation rate is difficult to train, the release of an isometric contraction into full relaxation and speed of movement is the most effective training method.

..Similar “pulsing” of activation in other elite sportsmen, including golfers and sprinters...

Ironically, most individuals are inadvertently performing Pulse Training...

Tip: 3 Little-Known Ways to Improve Athleticism

Not many people talk about these methods for getting faster and more powerful. Let's fix that.

www.t-nation.com

Not many people talk about these methods for getting faster and more powerful. Let's fix that.

The kettlebell swing can be used for developing the skill of pulsing contraction followed by rapid relaxation.

Here's how:

• A burst of energy or "pulse" is used to begin the swing.
• Once the swing is around chest height, rapid relaxation must occur to re-hinge the hips and guide the kettlebell back between the legs.
• Another pulsed contraction is used to start the beginning of the next swing.
• Then the kettlebell swings go in a continuous cycle of turning on and turning off certain musculature in the right sequence to create pulsing contractions. That develops the ability to produce power.

Understanding the mechanism/concept behind this "Pulse Training Method "allows you to write a program and apply it with other Resistance Training Exercises or in training other sports, like grappling".

The rate of muscle contraction is only as good as the rate of muscle relaxation. This is due to the double pulse phenomenon seen in core musculature during striking movements. Typically there is a peak in core muscle contraction just before the limb moves, and then again close to impact. Between the two periods of core stiffness there is a relaxation phase (McGill et al 2010).
Above Source: Other/Mixed - Abdominal Pulse Strength Training

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Often our 1RM is not done with perfect form because we need to cheat to lift it.

"You Lift Like You Train"

Poor Technique is usually something that is developed by individuals in training when muscle are fatigued.

Thus, Technique Development in a Movement occurs when Muscle Fatigue is allowed to occur.

Continuing to push a Exercise Movement once Muscle Fatigue sets in ensure Poor Technique is developed, there is a shift in the muscle firing sequence (as you noted it become a different exercise), etc.

heavy weights can lead to non-optimal muscle recruitment and tension production.

Technique Training

Technique Development for a 1 Repetition Max mandates heavy loads are employed.

1) Technique Training need to be first in a training session or on a separate day set aside for just it.

1) 85% plus of 1 Repetition Max Loads are needed.

As per...

I find 91-92% is my cutoff for perfect form, so I don't train above 92% very often because I want to practice with the best form I can.

2) Low Repetition of 1-2 per set.

3) Once Muscle Fatigue sets in, Stop.

Continuing in a Fatigued State ensures Poor Technique Development.

Development of Strength

The key to improving Strength in a Movement in which you want to excel in is developed with Auxiliary Exercises that have the same Strength Curve and the same muscle involvement, as well as Movement Pattern.

The Westside Powerlifting Protocol employs the use of Auxiliary Exercise to increase Maximum Strength.

Dr. Tom McLaughlin's (PhD BioMechanics/Former Powerlifter) research has also stated that employing Auxiliary Exercise as a means of increasing Maximum Strength in a Movement; rather than using the Movement.

Transfer Between Lifts: Increased Strength in Untrained Exercises
National Strength and Conditioning Research Journal

https://www.nsca.com/contentassets/3c0357cb66b54c6b9a598b0ca578600a/scj-transfer-between-lifts-2022.pdf

Research by Drs, Mang, Beam and Kravits determined Auxiliary Exercises, as noted above, have a Carryover Effect in the development of Strength in another Movement.

 

[Jamie P]

Forgive me but I don't think you're asking the right question here.

We do most of our training in the range you mention, 70 to 80%. Above around 90%, ones focus has to be on moving the weight. I find 91-92% is my cutoff for perfect form, so I don't train above 92% very often because I want to practice with the best form I can. I don't think it's all in your head, I think what you're describing is normal.

NB: "easier to contract the muscles harder" is subjective. We would need data from some kind of measure of percentage of maximum voluntary contraction or similar to see what actually was going on.

-S-

Thanks Steve. Appreciate the feedback

 

[Ege]

Can it also be due to fact that the exercise you are trying is a curl? Although its been a while not doing isolation exercise, I remember myself being able to “think” more with isolation exercises. Well as much as it sounds stupid, there might be an actual reason due to the load on the nervous system.

While doing Trex curls, or lateral dumbbell raises, I remember that most of my “failures” felt like triggered with my “thoughts ”. More like conscious decisions. But with compound exercises I feel like all the thoughts are wiped out.

 

[Jamie P]

"You Lift Like You Train"

Poor Technique is usually something that is developed by individuals in training when muscle are fatigued.

Thus, Technique Development in a Movement occurs when Muscle Fatigue is allowed to occur.

Continuing to push a Exercise Movement once Muscle Fatigue sets in ensure Poor Technique is developed, there is a shift in the muscle firing sequence (as you noted it become a different exercise), etc.


Technique Training

Technique Development for a 1 Repetition Max mandates heavy loads are employed.

1) Technique Training need to be first in a training session or on a separate day set aside for just it.

1) 85% plus of 1 Repetition Max Loads are needed.

As per...



2) Low Repetition of 1-2 per set.

3) Once Muscle Fatigue sets in, Stop.

Continuing in a Fatigued State ensures Poor Technique Development.

Development of Strength

The key to improving Strength in a Movement in which you want to excel in is developed with Auxiliary Exercises that have the same Strength Curve and the same muscle involvement, as well as Movement Pattern.

The Westside Powerlifting Protocol employs the use of Auxiliary Exercise to increase Maximum Strength.

Dr. Tom McLaughlin's (PhD BioMechanics/Former Powerlifter) research has also stated that employing Auxiliary Exercise as a means of increasing Maximum Strength in a Movement; rather than using the Movement.

Transfer Between Lifts: Increased Strength in Untrained Exercises
National Strength and Conditioning Research Journal

https://www.nsca.com/contentassets/3c0357cb66b54c6b9a598b0ca578600a/scj-transfer-between-lifts-2022.pdf

Research by Drs, Mang, Beam and Kravits determined Auxiliary Exercises, as noted above, have a Carryover Effect in the development of Strength in another Movement.

Thank you I appreciate it

 

[Jamie P]

Can it also be due to fact that the exercise you are trying is a curl? Although its been a while not doing isolation exercise, I remember myself being able to “think” more with isolation exercises. Well as much as it sounds stupid, there might be an actual reason due to the load on the nervous system.

While doing Trex curls, or lateral dumbbell raises, I remember that most of my “failures” felt like triggered with my “thoughts ”. More like conscious decisions. But with compound exercises I feel like all the thoughts are wiped out.

Thanks

 

[Jamie P]

Maximum Punch Force Production

Fighters hit hardest with Force Production that is near 100%.

Dr Stu McGill's Pulse Strength Training

McGill's research determined how Fighters are able Maximize Force Production.

Evidence of a Double Peak in Muscle Activation to Enhance Strike Speed and Force: An Example With Elite Mixed Martial Arts Fighters

Evidence of a Double Peak in Muscle Activation to Enhance... : The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research

mize speed and strike force. When muscle contracts, it increases in both force and stiffness. Force creates faster movement, but the corresponding stiffness slows the change of muscle shape and joint velocity. The purpose of this study was to investigate how this speed strength is accomplished...

journals.lww.com

Many of the strikes intend to create fast motion and finish with a very large striking force, demonstrating a "double peak" of muscle activity.

Muscles underwent a relaxation phase as speed of limb motion increased. A second peak was observed upon contact with the opponent (heavy bag).

...The contract-relax-contract pulsing cycle during forceful and quick strikes suggests that it may be fruitful to consider pulse training that involves not only the rate of muscle contraction but also the rate of muscle relaxation."
Matveyev (9) showed that elite athletes could have a muscle relaxation time of up to 8 times faster than nonathletes. The same work suggested that although relaxation rate is difficult to train, the release of an isometric contraction into full relaxation and speed of movement is the most effective training method.

..Similar “pulsing” of activation in other elite sportsmen, including golfers and sprinters...

Ironically, most individuals are inadvertently performing Pulse Training...

Tip: 3 Little-Known Ways to Improve Athleticism

Not many people talk about these methods for getting faster and more powerful. Let's fix that.

www.t-nation.com

Not many people talk about these methods for getting faster and more powerful. Let's fix that.

The kettlebell swing can be used for developing the skill of pulsing contraction followed by rapid relaxation.

Here's how:

• A burst of energy or "pulse" is used to begin the swing.
• Once the swing is around chest height, rapid relaxation must occur to re-hinge the hips and guide the kettlebell back between the legs.
• Another pulsed contraction is used to start the beginning of the next swing.
• Then the kettlebell swings go in a continuous cycle of turning on and turning off certain musculature in the right sequence to create pulsing contractions. That develops the ability to produce power.

Understanding the mechanism/concept behind this "Pulse Training Method "allows you to write a program and apply it with other Resistance Training Exercises or in training other sports, like grappling".

The rate of muscle contraction is only as good as the rate of muscle relaxation. This is due to the double pulse phenomenon seen in core musculature during striking movements. Typically there is a peak in core muscle contraction just before the limb moves, and then again close to impact. Between the two periods of core stiffness there is a relaxation phase (McGill et al 2010).
Above Source: Other/Mixed - Abdominal Pulse Strength Training

Thank you