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Old Forum Nasal breathing question- Steve Freides?

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Physical Culture

Physical Culture

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Steve (or anyone else who may know)- I got the book "Body, Mind, and Sport" by Doullard (sp?), and read it.  Some of it I simply had to dismiss, but his chapter on nasal breathing makes sense for increasing aerobic efficiency.

I can see the utility of nasal breathing in rhythmic sports such a running or cycling.  The author says that you should be able to take something like 18 steps per breath- deep, slow nasal breathing.

I practice long cycle, and the lifts are quick.  Breathing needs to be timed to the movement, or it all breaks down.  I've played around with nasal breathing at different weights and paces, but it just does not seem to work. I intend to keep practicing though, because I need to reduce my heart rate during longer sets.

My question is this: if I practice nasal breathing during cardio like running and skiing, will the increased aerobic efficiency carry over to long cycle with mouth breathing?  Or does it only work when breathing nasally?  The author does not seem to address this.  Does mouth breathing automatically elevate the heart rate?

Thanks!
 
The author sets this as a goal per breath cycle with training- not that most people will be able to do it at first attempt.
 
Hi, Steve.  18 steps per breath isn't out of reach for most runners.  The recommended cadence for running is 160-180 footfalls per minute, with 180 being preferred.  That would mean breathing every 10 footfalls, and while that might be a little bit of a reach for most runners, it's not a big one - I remember running and taking one breath every 8 steps without even making a big effort to do so because it was just what came naturally to me.  One breath every 18 steps would mean 10 breaths per minute - doable, says me.

Your observation about GS, "Breathing needs to be timed to the movement," seems right to me.  Breathing isn't something that provides power to runners the way it helps you move the weights in GS.  A 10-minute sport is, after all, an odd fellow - distance runners go for hours, and lifters are done in a few seconds.  Your sport has a rhythmic breathing component that I don't see replacing.

I can see nasal breathing, just not trying to slow it down - two different things here.   You might try nasal inhales and mouth exhales and see what you think of that - I think there is potential in training that way for GS, based on my limited knowledge of GS.  E.g., if you're looking to keep your effort moderate, go only for as long as you can continue nasal inhales - when you can't do that any longer, put the bells down, and work on increasing your time with only nasal breaths.

-S-
 
My question is this: if I practice nasal breathing during cardio like running and skiing, will the increased aerobic efficiency carry over to long cycle with mouth breathing?  Or does it only work when breathing nasally?  The author does not seem to address this.  Does mouth breathing automatically elevate the heart rate?
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I don't know the answers to those questions, I'm afraid.   My guess is that the carryover you ask about would exist although be limited since it's a package deal - the nasal breathing and the relaxation and the effort all happening at once.  I think it's still worth doing - some carryover is better than not doing it at all, and perhaps it's a significant carryover.

I think the point about mouth breathing relates specifically to exertion - if you mouth breath, he is saying that you are treating the effort you're making in a flight-or-fight kind of manner and your body will respond accordingly.  He's trying to reprogram you exert yourself and learn how to do it only while nasal breathing with a goal of minimizing the flight-or-fight aspect of things.

-S-
 
Hey Steve, not a GS guy, but I think it would benefit you to look into the type of breathe work we do in Systema.

 
 
Thanks, Steve.  I tried it with long cycle, and it's really awkward, but maybe just because it's new.  Nasal inhales with sharp mouth exhales seemed to work best.  Out of curiosity, I tried it with jerks and snatches separately, and it worked much better than with long cycle.   For jerks, I did a long, nasal inhale with the jerk and lockout, then a sharp exhale on the drop.  I did one rep per breath, and got 16 in one minute without straining.   For snatches, did a nasal inhale on the upward movement, then two sharp exhales at the bottom.  One rep per breath gave me 19 reps in a minute, again without being very hard.  Long cycle just seems to have too much going on to breathe like this.

After training, I did mow the yard and used only nasal breathing for about 30 minutes of steady state mowing.  It's going to take some adjustment.

Logan- can you elaborate?
 
Systema breathing

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hSOQfuFez3w

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tRTmyHAeHrc
 
Thanks for chiming in Nich. Watch the DVD, and attend a Systema class or seminar if you have a chance. You don't have to be a martial artist to benefit. It's all about efficiency, so that's why I thought it would go along well with GS. If you have any specific questions let me know.
 
There really is something to the nosebreathing guideline with jogging.  There is no clear distinction between jogging and running -- maybe a good definition is that you are jogging if your mouth is closed.  I'll say yes, it's good, even if you mouthbreathe during other training or sport.
 
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