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Off-Topic Nutrition, weight, and S&S

cmb

Level 4 Valued Member
Greetings, all. After a lower-back injury about 3 years ago, I had to quit my progress with Simple & Sinister. But I'm back on track now, albeit early in the game, and have been training consistently for a few weeks. I'm an early 40's male, 5'11", weighing about 160 lb. After my injury, my weight went up, but I got it down over the past several months by a calorie restricted diet. My metabolism has surely dropped since I was younger as, now, if I don't weigh myself regularly and consciously control my eating I will just gradually gain weight continually. My weight seems to me to be in a healthy place right now.

I have two main questions I'd like to ask:

1. Could you please point me to a Nutrition 101 article that could propel me in reaching the simple goal? I recently got The Warrior Diet, but haven't had time to dip into it (and don't know when I will!). An important part of how I restrict calories is intermittent fasting: I don't eat breakfast, usually eat a late lunch and then dinner, but sometimes only one meal. Anyway, when I do eat I aim for healthy foods (little to no processed foods, so, e.g., I eat a lot of spinach with olive oil) and make a conscious effort to have proteins (eggs, nuts, chicken, and/or protein powder). So that's my diet: healthy foods + an emphasis on protein. Is there anything I'm missing? I'd prefer a simple, maintainable diet. Years ago when I had about 35 lb I had to lose, I counted calories; I learned from that, but don't want to do that sort of thing again.

2. What should I do with my weight as I continue to train with the S&S routine? I'm afraid to just "let it go" and not watch it. I'm of a mind to keep my weight the same. But maybe I should let it rise to some other specific goal? I'm inclined to think I fit in the "skinny fat" category, as I have some extra stomach and waist chub (dadbod here), even though I'm at a pretty low weight. So my idea would be to press hard with my training, and just eat to maintain my weight around 160 lb. But then I've also read that this is a bad idea and bulking/cutting cycles are better. I honestly want the simplest, most maintainable plan, which is what I think keeping my weight static would be. Is this a bad idea? What do you recommend?

I'm not a trainer or expert in any way--please consider me a layman in your answers! Thanks, everyone!
 

Halfakneecap

Level 2 Valued Member
If you lost 35lbs by counting calories, why don’t you do that again? It obviously worked. I’m also early 40’s, but 5’8 ( almost 5’9”, so basically 6’ ! ) and 215, lost a few kgs since S&S ( started in July ). I like to eat though, and a biscuit or 3. I think my legs have gotten bigger though. I struggle a bit restricting calories too much, I just get hungry, especially since I started swinging the 32. Let us know how you go mate


Whenever I consistently stick to my set calories and log how many calories I eat, I drop weight without fail. I never have any success with extreme approaches.
 
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IMayAgainKnowChris

Level 5 Valued Member
Greetings, all. After a lower-back injury about 3 years ago, I had to quit my progress with Simple & Sinister. But I'm back on track now, albeit early in the game, and have been training consistently for a few weeks. I'm an early 40's male, 5'11", weighing about 160 lb. After my injury, my weight went up, but I got it down over the past several months by a calorie restricted diet. My metabolism has surely dropped since I was younger as, now, if I don't weigh myself regularly and consciously control my eating I will just gradually gain weight continually. My weight seems to me to be in a healthy place right now.

I have two main questions I'd like to ask:

1. Could you please point me to a Nutrition 101 article that could propel me in reaching the simple goal? I recently got The Warrior Diet, but haven't had time to dip into it (and don't know when I will!). An important part of how I restrict calories is intermittent fasting: I don't eat breakfast, usually eat a late lunch and then dinner, but sometimes only one meal. Anyway, when I do eat I aim for healthy foods (little to no processed foods, so, e.g., I eat a lot of spinach with olive oil) and make a conscious effort to have proteins (eggs, nuts, chicken, and/or protein powder). So that's my diet: healthy foods + an emphasis on protein. Is there anything I'm missing? I'd prefer a simple, maintainable diet. Years ago when I had about 35 lb I had to lose, I counted calories; I learned from that, but don't want to do that sort of thing again.

2. What should I do with my weight as I continue to train with the S&S routine? I'm afraid to just "let it go" and not watch it. I'm of a mind to keep my weight the same. But maybe I should let it rise to some other specific goal? I'm inclined to think I fit in the "skinny fat" category, as I have some extra stomach and waist chub (dadbod here), even though I'm at a pretty low weight. So my idea would be to press hard with my training, and just eat to maintain my weight around 160 lb. But then I've also read that this is a bad idea and bulking/cutting cycles are better. I honestly want the simplest, most maintainable plan, which is what I think keeping my weight static would be. Is this a bad idea? What do you recommend?

I'm not a trainer or expert in any way--please consider me a layman in your answers! Thanks, everyone!
I’d suggest eating slightly above maintenance. Maybe 500 cal if you’re strength training. If your weight starts to go up back off a little. If it stays the same and you’re getting stronger you’ve hit the sweet spot! This is like my new favorite thing I’ve learned in the last year. Getting leaner slowly but also building strength! My weight fluctuates 3-4 lbs day to day depending on sodium and water but damn, man. It feels good to be eating 3k cal now and staying the same weight instead of eating 1500.
 

BJJ Shawn

Level 6 Valued Member
I'm not a trainer, but I can tell you my experience. I used S&S while losing about 30 pounds, and I was able to achieve Timed Simple while still in a caloric deficit. I also used IF during this time, just like you, and found it the easiest way to stick to my calories. I was doing S&S in the morning (5-6am) after only a 25 gram protein shake, had another shake around 9am, and ate my first meal at 12pm. With protein at about 1 gram per pound, I was losing about 1 pound a week, and my sleep hasn't been good in years.

I'll tell you, it was not easy to maintain. I was worn out a lot from the practice (I have done S&S in the past and never felt as beat up, even with additional martial arts training) and often only got in 3 sessions a week and never more than 4 as I just couldn't get up and do it. But sticking with it, the kettlebell sizes went up while my waist went down.

I have since switched to a bulking diet and heavy barbell work, and even though the work is more intense, eating in a surplus has REALLY helped my recovery to where I'm able to handle it much better.

I had a lot more fat to lose than you, so I had no choice but to go into a caloric deficit if I wanted to lose it, but if I was in your position I would play the long game and eat at maintenance and not worry about it too much so it is sustainable. Bulking/cutting is the FASTEST way to add muscle and burn fat, but as a novice you CAN recomp, it will just take longer.
 
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Social_Media_Hater

Level 2 Valued Member
I am not expert in anything relevant; I can only speak from my own experience.
But, I really can't imagine working with the 32 kg bell without eating breakfast. Simple and Sinister is a strength program, if it makes you hungry you should eat. I would try to maintain a constant weight and adjust what I eat if I gain or lose more then 10 pounds.
 

marvinthemartian

Level 5 Valued Member
My experience has been that a caloric deficit had a negative impact on recovery and strength gains. Once I reached my target weight and went back to eating in a "normal" way training became a lot easier. If you don't want to count calories you still have to find a way to match your caloric consumption to your activity level to maintain your bodyweight. Maybe focusing on quality meals and portion sizes could work for you. I am still working on my own diet but I have found that a bodybuilding style of eating is pretty handy. Lean protein, carbs, veggies and some veggies 3 times a day works well for me. IMO a high frequency program with a constant volume and no hypertrophy focus like S&S is not a good match for suited for bulk/cut diets.
 

cmb

Level 4 Valued Member
Honestly, I have not been counting calories for years. To get my weight down, all I've done is gone on the scale every morning and adjusted my eating through that new day accordingly. And that has worked well. So, if I increase my training intensity, I would increase what I eat to maintain the same weight. It sounds like that's an okay way to go about this?
 

BJJ Shawn

Level 6 Valued Member
Honestly, I have not been counting calories for years. To get my weight down, all I've done is gone on the scale every morning and adjusted my eating through that new day accordingly. And that has worked well. So, if I increase my training intensity, I would increase what I eat to maintain the same weight. It sounds like that's an okay way to go about this?
I would think so. Your overall weight is on the light side for your height, so putting on a few pounds (of muscle) won't hurt and your recovery will be MUCH better if you don't try to cut. As long as you are patient, you should get to where you want to go.

This is a place you can go to start (A Macro Calculator to Crush Your Physique Goals | RippedBody.com) and I usually find that counting calories for at least a few days can get my eyeballs calibrated enough that I don't have to do it often, but it helps when making a shift in goals so I like to do it and then adjust as the scale changes.
 

cmb

Level 4 Valued Member
Okay, so I suppose nutrition-wise I need to track for a while to learn the macros offered by different foods: protein, fat, and carbs. Previously I learned calories from doing this. I can do it, it doesn't take a lot of time, it's just a bit of a pain. (Do you all typically track this?)

My goal is no longer to lose weight, but rather to maintain my weight, and eat what will nutritionally help me to build muscle. I've never gotten much instruction on the nutrition side other than eat healthy and eat extra protein.

According to the website @BJJ Shawn referenced, I should aim for about 160g of protein, 20%-ish fat (for recomp), and the rest carbs. Wulp, I tracked my food for today and I'm way off: I need to triple my protein and increase my carbs quite a bit. Are carbs that important? I have been intentionally trying to exclude them for a pretty long time!
 

silveraw

Level 7 Valued Member
Okay, so I suppose nutrition-wise I need to track for a while to learn the macros offered by different foods: protein, fat, and carbs. Previously I learned calories from doing this. I can do it, it doesn't take a lot of time, it's just a bit of a pain. (Do you all typically track this?)

My goal is no longer to lose weight, but rather to maintain my weight, and eat what will nutritionally help me to build muscle. I've never gotten much instruction on the nutrition side other than eat healthy and eat extra protein.

According to the website @BJJ Shawn referenced, I should aim for about 160g of protein, 20%-ish fat (for recomp), and the rest carbs. Wulp, I tracked my food for today and I'm way off: I need to triple my protein and increase my carbs quite a bit. Are carbs that important? I have been intentionally trying to exclude them for a pretty long time!
Basically hit protein and then carbs and fats whatever you prefer as long as you don’t go over calories.
 
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Kenny Croxdale

Level 6 Valued Member
Could you please point me to a Nutrition 101 article that could propel me in reaching the simple goal?
Weight Loss 101

The Dr Mike Israetel's video posted by Silversaw provides some of the Nutrition 101 concepts.

1) Determine you present Calorie Intake.

Think of weight loss as taking a trip.

First, you need to know where you are on the map, then determine the location of where you want to go.

Next, plot your course.

I learned calories from doing this. I can do it, it doesn't take a lot of time, it's just a bit of a pain. (Do you all typically track this?)

Counting Calories

1) "It doesn't take a lot of time."

Like anything the more you do it, the better and faster you get at it.

2) "A bit of a pain"

To some degree, I understand and "Feel your pain".

3) "Do you al l typically track this"

I do. Due to a metabolic condition, I am on the Ketogenic Diet with some Intermittent Fast.

To ensure that I am in ketosis, I calculate my macros each mean; determining my percentages of each: Fats, Proteins and Carbohydrates.

I also calculate my calorie intake based on the number of grams of each of the macros.

1) Three Day Recall

This is one of the most prescribed methods of determining you Daily Average Calorie Intake.

a) Count everything you eat for three days.

b) One of the three day need to be a weekend day; that because on your off days, your eating pattern and habits change.

c) Divide your Three Day Calorie Intake by Three (3) to obtain you Daily Average Intake.

2) Decrease Calorie Intake

Regardless of which diet you are on, Calories Count.

Research by Drs. John Ivy and Layne Norton, independent of each other, determined that a decrease in Daily Calorie Intake by 20% was the most effective at losing body fat while maintaining muscle mass.

3) Calorie Rotation

The MADADOR Diet Research demonstrated that optimal weight loss was maintained when Calorie Intake was rotated every two weeks; decreasing calories for two (2) week, then increasing calorie for two (2) week.

Research information on the MATADOR Diet has been posted multiple time on this forum.

Common Sense Approach

The two (2) Calorie Rotation weeks are based on research showing that most individual Metabolic Rate decrease in that time period.

Individual who are still losing weight may want to push the lower calorie intake for a week or more.

However, when weight loss grind to a halt, it's time to increase Calorie Intake.

The General Adaptation Syndrome

Essentially, with stress, one of two thing occurs. Your body learns and adapts or you die.

This applies to everything in life.

It is behind Periodizaton Training, Dieting and diseases like Covid.

Covid's mutation from one type to another is its method of adapting to survive.

Bulking and Cutting

Calorie Rotation is one of the fundamental method Bodybuilder use for gaining and cutting weight.

The problem is they increase their calorie intake too high and then cut them to low. This method in the bulking phase means they gain more body fat.

In the cutting fast, they lose more muscle than they should.

An important part of how I restrict calories is intermittent fasting:
Intermittent Fasting

This is one of the most effective method of decreasing Daily Average Calorie Intake.

Nothing to count or prepare, just skip a meal.

This method to some degree minimizes the need to count calories.
emphasis on protein.

30 Grams of Quality Protein Per Serving

Research by Drs. Donald Layman and Layne Norton (Bodybuilder/Powerlifter) determined that it is the key to Muscle Protein Synthesis. It revolves around the amount of protein consumed per meal/serving.

Consuming at least 30 gram or more per meal/serving optimizes Muscle Protein Synthesis, maintaining and/or increasing muscle mass.

The Warrior Diet, ,,,haven't had time to dip into it (and don't know when I will!).

An Excuse

This is poor excuse.

If something is important to us, we "Make Time" for it.

If it not important, we "Don't have or can find time for it".

According to the website @BJJ Shawn referenced, I should aim for about 160g of protein, 20%-ish fat (for recomp), and the rest carbs.
Not Necessarily

I agree with Shawn's diet based on his BJJ Sport.

His sport falls into...

The Glycolytic Energy System

Sports in this energy system are highly dependent on glucose.

Thus, higher carbohydrate intake is necessary.

With in mind, to a large degree what dictates you macro percentages for training is dependent on your...

Energy System Training

1) Phosphagen Energy System

Individual on low carbohydrate diets, like Keto perform equally as well as those on high carbohydrate diets, like the Standard American Diet.

That because Phosphangen, ATP, is the fuel source; not ketones or glucose.

2) Glycolytic Energy System

Individuals is these sports or activities need to consume more carbohydrates.

3) Oxidative Energy System

Since a greater percentage of fat is utilized in these sports or activities, many have found that higher fat intake and lower carbohydrates are effective.

as long as you don’t go over calories.

The Take Home Message

The key to weight loss starts with calorie intake.

Final Thought

Insulin Resistant individuals weight loss is usually more effective with lower carbohydrate intake.
 
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IMayAgainKnowChris

Level 5 Valued Member
I’ve found rather than like strictly counting calories I have a list of things I need to eat a given meal. Ex: (12 oz chicken, 1 cup rice or 1lb ground beef 6oz potatoes). I have a list of those and if I pick one for each meal from that list I’ll hit my macros for the day. It’s boring. But simple.
 

Pete L

Level 5 Valued Member
I am not expert in anything relevant; I can only speak from my own experience.
But, I really can't imagine working with the 32 kg bell without eating breakfast. Simple and Sinister is a strength program, if it makes you hungry you should eat. I would try to maintain a constant weight and adjust what I eat if I gain or lose more then 10 pounds.
I fasted in the morning and practiced S&S at lunchtime prior to breaking my fast.
Occasionally, after a heavier evening kickboxing session, I'd have a breakfast of either spinach omelette or rice and beans.
 
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oab

Level 2 Valued Member
.... lower-back injury about 3 years ago, I had to quit my progress with Simple & Sinister. But I'm back on track now, albeit early in the game, and have been training consistently for a few weeks. I'm an early 40's male, 5'11", weighing about 160 lb. .....My weight seems to me to be in a healthy place right now.
.... What should I do with my weight as I continue to train S&S routine?
I presume health is your main goal. According to the height and weight you provided your BMI is 22. Generally speaking it is a good idea to have a BMI of 20-25 - if a person has a lot of muscle then the muscle can mean they could end up near or over 25.

Your bulging tummy and a history of back injury might mean a postural issue (a guess which might be incorrect, not a diagnosis). However, it is enough to suggest that you should consider getting some input to ensure that your alignment is good as you progress through S&S. Build up S&S always so it feels easy, pushing can set a person up for injury.

S&S is a good choice as a program but it is important to make sure you know all the details to get the best out it. This include the form and motions in the exercises and so on.
Good luck.
 

Pete L

Level 5 Valued Member
Seed oils. In my experience, if you remove these permanently from your diet, you will be able to maintain a healthy weight and body composition without calorie counting.
Does that definition extend to stones, such as those from olives, and legumes, such as peanuts please?
 

TimothyGander

Level 1 Valued Member
Does that definition extend to stones, such as those from olives, and legumes, such as peanuts please?
What I meant are industrially produced oils from seeds, also commonly known as vegetable oils: sunflower, soybean, rapeseed, canola, corn, cottonseed, safflower oils (also any hydrogenated fats); and products containing them in various forms. Olive and peanut oils are healthy, as long as they aren't diluted with any of the above.
 

Pete L

Level 5 Valued Member
Is it the industrial processing that is the problem specifically? We have some super tasty cold pressed rapeseed in the UK.
I'm particularly interested as this is my go to dairy free replacement for butter.
Thanks.
 
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