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One Arm Swing question

RWolfe

Level 4 Valued Member
i have been doing one arm swings for a long time (years), I have completed S&S timeless with 32k (before, then again recently after a long layoff). I have only once had tweaked my back, very early in my KB career, trying to go too heavy too fast. That was probably 12 years ago.

I started Axe a few weeks ago and first tried a 24kg with h2h swings, just to get the feel, as I hadnt done many h2h in some time. It was way too easy. So next session I went to 32. Again it was easy to do 20 sets of 4. Next session, I bumped it to 30 sets. And, during that session, I once again tweaked my back - it didnt feel like much at the time but later on that day it was pretty sore. I assume it was due to me paying more attention to hand swap and not my glute/abs at the top of one of my swings. Lesson learned. However I have also noticed of late that when i do a right one arm swing, I tend to shift my hips a bit to the right on the downswing (which was the same side i tweaked my back). Wondering if the two may be related. Do others notice that they do this? It really doesnt happen on the left. Any advice appreciated! Thanks!
 
RWolfe said:
I started Axe a few weeks ago and first tried a 24kg with h2h swings, just to get the feel, as I hadnt done many h2h in some time. It was way too easy. So next session I went to 32. Again it was easy to do 20 sets of 4. Next session, I bumped it to 30 sets.
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Once your back feels better, I would follow the instructions in the book more carefully. Sounds like you jumped way ahead of what your body was ready for. A video of your swings would help to give you more specific information to help you with your swing.
 
I haven't gotten into AXE, so I don't know if it's part of the program, but, with a tweaky back, you might be better served just doing two handed swings. Assuming your form is good, it should be safer. Dan John has a few videos on how he doesn't think 1 handed swings should be done heavy, as it depends on everything being locked correctly.
 
Unpopular opinion. Heavy one hand swings are no good. I can feel my SI joint popping out of place reading your post. What's the payoff? I'd rather snatch instead. Hand 2 Hand swings are a circus trick. Do you want to do swings or play catch the kettlebell in mid air? So many things can go wrong including breaking fingers. (Yes I broke my ring finger 14 years ago doing it.).

As @marlowe says, you're better off doing 200 two hand swings. I've seen a "Master RKC/StrongFirst" member do one hand swings with a 44 kg on his blog, and I thought "that bell is not even getting beyond his crotch."
 
From 20 sets of 4 you jumped to 30 sets of 4.. that's a total of 80 reps to 120 reps a 50% increase in volume...

That alone gives you a clue..

If you have a vid of you doing swings that will also be very helpful since some habits and tendencies aren't as exposed with lower reps, volume and load but when we increase one or all three variables, those tendencies cause us to get bitten by the injury bug
 
A one arm Swing is an anti-rotational movement. You are using your back and core to fight against rotating to one side at the bottom. If you are rotating, you are either not working it right, or you are going too heavy. A 2-arm swing is more about explosive power. These days, in my oldish age, I only do 2-arm swings because the 1-arm variety is too much on my forearms.
 
Agree with @Mark Limbaga —this is likely a case of "too much too soon."

Also take into account you went from the 24kg and jumped to the 32kg so not only a jump in volume but also in loading of "too much too soon."

Getting a form check and movement check after coming back to KB training would also be a good idea.
 
Mark Limbaga said:
From 20 sets of 4 you jumped to 30 sets of 4.. that's a total of 80 reps to 120 reps a 50% increase in volume...

That alone gives you a clue..

If you have a vid of you doing swings that will also be very helpful since some habits and tendencies aren't as exposed with lower reps, volume and load but when we increase one or all three variables, those tendencies cause us to get bitten by the injury bug
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Fair point, however I had in the previous weeks been doing S&S timeless 1h swings with a 32k (2-3x per week), so I had been doing 100 swings in roughly 12 minutes just the prior week. Just spread it out over more time, and, added 20 reps.
The real variable was the h2h - I think it distracted me from my form. Anyway, I will get a vid up once my back is 100% again... its about 90% recovered now. It wasn't too severe... Anyway thanks for the reply.
 
Brett Jones said:
Agree with @Mark Limbaga —this is likely a case of "too much too soon."

Also take into account you went from the 24kg and jumped to the 32kg so not only a jump in volume but also in loading of "too much too soon."

Getting a form check and movement check after coming back to KB training would also be a good idea.
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Brett, see my reply above. I had been doing 32k swings previously, I simply backed down to 24 the first session to see how it felt, and check on my h2h competency as I transitioned from S&S 10x10x32k to AXE
 
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Brett Jones said:
Agree with @Mark Limbaga —this is likely a case of "too much too soon."

Also take into account you went from the 24kg and jumped to the 32kg so not only a jump in volume but also in loading of "too much too soon."

Getting a form check and movement check after coming back to KB training would also be a good idea.
Click to expand...
 
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BrianCF said:
Unpopular opinion. Heavy one hand swings are no good. I can feel my SI joint popping out of place reading your post. What's the payoff? I'd rather snatch instead. Hand 2 Hand swings are a circus trick. Do you want to do swings or play catch the kettlebell in mid air? So many things can go wrong including breaking fingers. (Yes I broke my ring finger 14 years ago doing it.).

As @marlowe says, you're better off doing 200 two hand swings. I've seen a "Master RKC/StrongFirst" member do one hand swings with a 44 kg on his blog, and I thought "that bell is not even getting beyond his crotch."
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My challenge with 2 handed swings is that I cannot really fit my hands on the handle... I have to grip with thumb and 3 fingers... doable, but annoying. I started with h2h as that was Pavel's recommendation in the book. However I may skip those for a while and just do 1 arm, alternating.
 
jayjo said:
A one arm Swing is an anti-rotational movement. You are using your back and core to fight against rotating to one side at the bottom. If you are rotating, you are either not working it right, or you are going too heavy. A 2-arm swing is more about explosive power. These days, in my oldish age, I only do 2-arm swings because the 1-arm variety is too much on my forearms.
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Thanks for the response jayjo. See above - 2 handed swings are harder for me as my full 2 hands dont fit on the handle... maybe many others experience this too. Anyway, I have no problems yet with 1h swings (grip wise - Im 61 years young :) ), but do want to revisit my form. I have been doing this for a long time and had my form checked several times over the years in person by certified (strong first) instructors. Of course still possible I've developed some bad habits. Oh, and when I was doing S&S I did mix in some days of 2 handed... just not my favorite thing to do.
 
marlowe said:
I haven't gotten into AXE, so I don't know if it's part of the program, but, with a tweaky back, you might be better served just doing two handed swings. Assuming your form is good, it should be safer. Dan John has a few videos on how he doesn't think 1 handed swings should be done heavy, as it depends on everything being locked correctly.
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Thanks for the response Marlow... I've addressed 2h swings above... but I certainly can mix those in, as I did with S&S - and for AXE they are an option, as are 1h alternating. Also I expect that Dan's definition of 'heavy" may be higher that what I am putting up, just saying :)
 
RWolfe said:
Brett, see my reply above. I had been doing 32k swings previously, I simply backed down to 24 the first session to see how it felt, and check on my h2h competency as I transitioned from S&S 10x10x32k to AXE
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"I have completed S&S timeless with 32k (before, then again recently after a long layoff). I have only once had tweaked my back, very early in my KB career, trying to go too heavy too fast. That was probably 12 years ago."

This gave the impression that you were coming back to swings after a long layoff.
How long was the lay off?
and
How long had you been back to swinging?

H2H does change the swing and needs some practice before hitting high volume IMO.
 
Something to consider...

The h2h swing apart from being fairly novel to your movement inventory also requires a lot more stability than a one hand swing..

Also, when doing timeless simple, we often rest generously.. axe doesn't give you that luxury
 
RWolfe said:
Thanks for the response jayjo. See above - 2 handed swings are harder for me as my full 2 hands dont fit on the handle... maybe many others experience this too. Anyway, I have no problems yet with 1h swings (grip wise - Im 61 years young :) ), but do want to revisit my form. I have been doing this for a long time and had my form checked several times over the years in person by certified (strong first) instructors. Of course still possible I've developed some bad habits. Oh, and when I was doing S&S I did mix in some days of 2 handed... just not my favorite thing to do.
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The same happens to me when I do 2 hand swings: the position of my pinkies is really uncomfortable, and I don't have especially big hands....
 
RWolfe said:
My challenge with 2 handed swings is that I cannot really fit my hands on the handle... I have to grip with thumb and 3 fingers... doable, but annoying
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@Brett Jones, how to fit one's hand onto/into the kettlebell handle for two-hand swings is a subject I'd love to read an article about. (If such an article already exists on this website, someone please post a link to it.)

Speaking from personal experience, I have a less-than-well-functioning right shoulder, and I managed to give myself a case of right side tennis elbow that, so far as I can tell, came from how I held my hands when doing two-hand swings. (It happened at the backmost portion of the swing - my right hand would go further back than my left.)

My solution? I gave up on trying to "fit my hands on the handle" and went in for a bit of the "ulnar deviation" that I first learned about while watching Fabio's Victorious course about the one-arm kettlebell military press. This might seem counterintuitive because I am getting less, not more, of my fingers into the handle, but that turned out to be the solution for me.

-S-
 
RWolfe said:
challenge with 2 handed swings is that I cannot really fit my hands on the handle... I have to grip with thumb and 3 fingers... doable, but annoying.
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Out of curiosity, are you using comp bells? Not really material. Just thinking you might have really big hands. Just a point of curiosity

RWolfe said:
I started with h2h as that was Pavel's recommendation in the book.
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Yeah I see a couple reasons why he might have settled on the H2H swing.

1. Inclusion of anti rotational forces
2. Relative symmetry
3. Giving the grip a little rest

RWolfe said:
However I may skip those for a while and just do 1 arm, alternating.
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I would consider the 2 hand swings as well. But, if you are decided about the handle fit issue then there's that.

Mark Limbaga said:
The h2h swing apart from being fairly novel to your movement inventory also requires a lot more stability than a one hand swing..
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A couple concerns I had while getting used to it.

1. Planking at the top is something that needed it's own practice for me.

Relaxing the arms and grip reduced my total system tension. So I had to practice maintaining the plank while my grip relaxed. The total system tension was relatively constant for me during 1 hand and 2 hand swings .

So I had to intentionally practice tension relaxation tension

2.the hinge timing was effected slightly by my perception of the regrip while catching the bell.

This was noticeable in my back at least once. And so I paid a lot of attention to it to learn about my own timing and getting the bell to cooperate.

3. I have always kept it in my back pocket that 2 hand swings are an option for my goals.

And I may yet switch to it if I feel it's a valuable trade off.
 
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