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Old Forum Pavel/ Brett: ballistic recovery and flexion

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Zach Ganska

Zach Ganska

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has it been determined what time frame is needed (in general to cover most trainees) post ballistic training to resume forward flexion postures without the increased risk of spine injury?

Would a training session with heavy load on the posterior chain, such as one focusing on squats and or deadlifts require the same recovery window?
 
Zach, I am neither of the people you addressed, but my two-cents-worth:

I don't feel I need any time after heavy deadlifts to begin doing forward flexion.  Indeed, some forward flexion help stretch out my back when it's tight at times like that.

But you mention forward flexion "postures" - that's a different thing.  Can you be more specific?

The combination I have found does _not_ work for me is bike riding followed by deadlifting.  Bike riding is a "forward flexion posture" in that you are bent forward and stay there as opposed to moving in and out of flexion, e.g., like you would in a situp.   After a prolonged period of forward flexion posture like that, I don't deadlift again until at least the next day, sometimes two days later but usually one day is sufficient - but not less that that.

Hope that's helpful to you.

-S-
 
Thank you gentlemen,

Steve- i dont have have my copy of S & S to reference at the moment, I'm thinking of Pavel stating McGill's findings on the increased risk of spine injuries by using flexion postures/ movements following ballistic hinging. So more specifically I'm wondering how much recovery time on average is needed before flexing the spine during mobilization practices, say a standing toe-touch, plow, etc., no longer increases the risk of spine injuries as found by McGill.
 
Zach, read "Treat Your Own Back" by Robin McKenzie.  In his examples, it's sitting slumped on the couch after playing touch football outside for two hours.  The idea is that when your back gets all nice and warmed up and loose, poor posture can result in joint distortion.   So flexion exercises and slumping on the couch are two different things here, i.e., flexion postures aren't the same as flexion movements.

The individual applications, e.g., toe touches after kettlebell ballistics, are going to be individual, but in general, I think they're safe unless otherwise indicated.  I can speak for myself and say that, if you follow SF's guidance about performing such things as toe-touch by looking for space in all your individual joints, trying to spread the load and not bending in just one place, so much the better, and that's the only way I do those things, anyway.

JMO.

-S-
 
There's a video I tried finding for you where a professor is giving a lecture about tissue creep and references how many people used to blow out disks after getting off a plane at a particular airport and picking up their luggage. Supposedly after speaking with Dr. McGill, they put the baggage claim at least a 5 minute walk away from the gates so that a person's tissues could return to their "normal" state. The idea being  that a 5 minute walk was enough to reduce the creep that occurred during a multi-hour flight by about 80% or more. If a person can maintain good form and has loose enough hamstrings and hip flexors they'll probably decrease the amount of creep that would otherwise happen.

All of that said, I don't know why it would be needed to intentionally add end range lumbar flexion exercises at the end of ballistics practice or heavy posterior chain work. If you read McGill's stuff you'll know that stretching the back isn't desirable. From a risk/reward perspective, it doesn't seem warranted considering the load through the disks already happening during training. Now something like cat/camel and bird dogs in that plane of movement would seem more palatable after training. All of the above is predicated on the fact that the particular trainee has no history of LBP or disk issues. Anyone with a history of such could train spinal mobility, if needed, in a different training session, but definitely directed by their doc or PT.
 
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