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Barbell Press vs Military Press

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@WhatWouldHulkDo Yes, I mean the MP is lower skill than a Press.

The Clean builds the back like no other exercise. A stronger back and support system makes a stronger Press. The Press is not a Power Lift though. It’s a strength lift. The Jerk and Push Press are expressions of power. That’s one reason the Press was a competition lift they wanted to test the best in strength and power.

The Front Squat has a lot to do with overhead pressing. If you cannot comfortably Front Squat and Front Rack the weight how are you going to have the reserve strength to push it over head? That’s one reason I am using Front Squats and heavy Walkouts in my programming.
 
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Antti said:
We push the hips forward and lean back, thus creating a path for the barbell, and then forcefully reverse the movement and thus initiate the movement of the barbell.
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... and we are also pressing away from the weight and moving under it.
 
Geoff Chafe said:
I like the Push Press also, but if you want to build pressing strength you need a strict press. It will help build your lockout well, and overload the top portion of the lift.
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I agree, but... doing push presses with a slower than usual negative phase is a great strength builder.
 
Alan Mackey said:
I agree, but... doing push presses with a slower than usual negative phase is a great strength builder.
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There is no reason why you can't do several press variations in one training session. Marty Gallagher did something similar with the power clean to deadlift continuum. He called it the "progressive pulls" workout. You start with a weight light enough that you can power clean, add weight and move to a full clean (if you can do that lift), then a clean pull, then finally a deadlift.

Similarly, you can do a "progressive press" workout. Start with a strict press and end with a jerk (if you are competent in that lift). Whenever I do a workout involving pressing something overhead I generally work up to at least a power jerk. It makes the workout fun and there's none of the "which is better" going on.
 
MikeTheBear said:
There is no reason why you can't do several press variations in one training session. Marty Gallagher did something similar with the power clean to deadlift continuum. He called it the "progressive pulls" workout. You start with a weight light enough that you can power clean, add weight and move to a full clean (if you can do that lift), then a clean pull, then finally a deadlift.

Similarly, you can do a "progressive press" workout. Start with a strict press and end with a jerk (if you are competent in that lift). Whenever I do a workout involving pressing something overhead I generally work up to at least a power jerk. It makes the workout fun and there's none of the "which is better" going on.
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I’ve used that approach many times. It was fun and quite productive.

Clean > RDL > DL

Press > Push Press > Jerk

Overhead Squat > Front Squat > Back Squat

45° Rows > Horizontal Rows > Coan Rows
 
When I do the Clean, I press with it. When doing them from the rack, I do Military Presses. Personally, I feel stronger doing the Military Press because I can make my body much tighter and stable, like I can screw myself into the floor better. But I may be crazy too. I've noticed that some of the Military Presses on youtube come out of the rack with the bar held very high, maybe close to mouth level and then they drop the bar and rebound back up. I never used that method for my initial press.

I've done Cleans and Presses before, and I do 3 presses with 2 push presses at the end for a set of 5. I think I picked that up from the late J.V. Asked.
 
As long as we're talking about presses.... from this morning's session, 3x5 at 98 lb, this is the third set... critiques welcome.

Using the hip movement on the first rep (not my best, but probably my average).

 
@Anna C Our techniques are similar. Good drive on that last rep. It slowed down, but you kept pushing and didn’t break form.

This is a set from when I started Wendler 5/3/1. I have improved a bit from then, and it’s on a solid 2” Axel.


A failed single.


Lockout Support.

Since then I have done Lockouts from 4 blocks at 6”.

The T Spine is a very active component of the lift.

After reading up a bit I’m going to try a bit wider grip, like I would use on a Push Press, let the upper arms come off the lats, and like the elbows stay under the bar. It’s in one of the articles I posted about common errors and corrections. I will give it a try to see how it fells for a while.
 
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@Geoff Chafe @Anna C

I'm interested in the use of the belt while pressing.

I've only tried pressing with a belt a couple of times and it felt like it really messed with my technique.

How are you using it? - consciously bracing your abs against it? or some other way?

And would you describe it as an essential safety tool for the lift?
 
krg said:
@Geoff Chafe @Anna C

I'm interested in the use of the belt while pressing.

I've only tried pressing with a belt a couple of times and it felt like it really messed with my technique.

How are you using it? - consciously bracing your abs against it? or some other way?

And would you describe it as an essential safety tool for the lift?
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I am pretty new to a belt. It’s just something I have been playing with. I only use it now on my AMRAP and Joker Sets. When I started to use it is used it on all sets to get used to it and get a feel for it.

I tried it on Bench but it didn’t help.

Yes, I push and arch into it into it. I can really feel it digging into my lats which is also a positive feed back for getting my back very tight.

It is a safety tool, but essential? No. I would have to look in my log but I have only used a belt since October or November 2017.

I have been listening to the Westside Podcast and Louie says the belly is a point of leverage. This has changed how I think of the use of a Powerlifting Belt.
 
olympic_style_press_og.jpg


@Anna C and @Geoff Chafe Either the hip movement is tough to see from the angles of your videos, it's way more subtle than I imagine it to be, or it's done so quickly that it is difficult to detect. (It is supposed to be an explosive move so that last one could be it.) It seems that both of you start in the position of the second guy from the left in the above image. Of course I could just be blind. At any rate, nice pressing for you both.
 
@Geoff Chafe yes I think we do have similar styles, and yes I think Mike is right that we could both be a lot more agressive with the hip movement. I try to do that first picture enough so that the bar, while being held in the same place in the rack, travels down a slight bit so that on the rebound it gets a jump up AND the head is out of the way so the bar path can be more vertical.

@MikeTheBear I do see the double hip movement in the diagrams but I'm only trying to do the first of these. I'm not sure how it's distinguished. I have seen people do both. (second one = layback? not sure). Anyway, thanks!

On the grip, it's my impression that shoulder width grip on the bar is best and most efficient for elbows under the bar. Maybe there are some other considerations.

@krg on the belt, YES I definitely feel the belt helps a ton on the press. (I feel it helps the MOST with squats and deadlifts, but a significant amount on the press and even somewhat for me on the bench press). Conciously brace abs, yes... the belt gives some feedback on how well the abs are braced. Something to push back. Not that you push out into it, just that it gives feedback that amplifies the tight abdominal contraction.
 
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I wonder if the Olympic Press style works better with a Clean before hand? Why I ask this is because of the rebound effect you get with the clean may carry over to that drop to start the press.
 
@MikeTheBear I have seen that picture, and I think the start position is missing. The first position is actually the second position.

The second position the bar is at forehead level. My start position I have t spine extension, but the glutes are under me.

As I have said my technique is not extreme.
 
Jeff Roark said:
I wonder if the Olympic Press style works better with a Clean before hand? Why I ask this is because of the rebound effect you get with the clean may carry over to that drop to start the press.
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A Rack Press or Rack Jerk will always be stronger. It easier to get into and maintain your positioning. You are using all your strength for the Press.

If you can only Front Squat or Clean 225lb you are not going to have reserve strength for the Press. The stronger and more proficient you are in the Clean the more reserve strength you will have for the Press.

I don’t know of any rebound effect from the Clean. Typically on a Clean you will pop and reset your grip, and gather yourself before proceeding.
 
MikeTheBear said:
@Anna C I've always liked this video of the press aka Olympic press. I'll admit it's not the best at showing the actual technique, but it scores a 10 on the coolness factor because Serge Redding presses 500 lbs.!



Good article here by the late Bill Starr on the technique of the Olympic press: The Olympic-Style Press | Bill Starr

I suppose if you really wanted to be technical about things, you should clean the bar before you press, although one clean and multiple presses would be acceptable.

I think it is a cool lift and it is a bit of a shame that it is no longer part of Olympic lifting.
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Redding held the record for about 3 minutes. Alexeev is cooler.


Even though the knees clearly rebend the lift was given to him.
 
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