all posts post new thread

Programming Improv Programming Question

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)

kmg22

Level 2 Valued Member
First post on this forum but I've been a long time reader and have picked up a lot of good advice on here over the years.

I am 37 years old. I have done a lot of KB programs over the years (achieved timed simple, the giant, Q&D, etc.), and have really enjoyed them. Minimalist style training suits my personality.

My problem is I was a wrestler for most of my life and it beat up my body pretty good. So I haven't yet done a program and came out of it feeling good. My main problems are neck, low back, and knees. I focused on doing swings, presses, etc with proper technique, and while I have always gotten stronger from completing the programs, I am also usually in pain. I have had coaches check my form and I am an experienced lifter.

Recently I have been playing around with some bodyweight type of training. Nothing fancy. Pull ups, push ups, squats. I was thinking about doing this 2-3x a week:

- Set timer for 20 mins and see how many rounds I can do of 5 pull ups, 10 hindu pushups, 20 hindu squats, and 10 ab wheel or V Ups

I would progress by trying to do one more round each week in the 20 min time limit. My goal is to feel good, look good and be strong. I would run this for 4-6 weeks and then maybe transition to isometrics or super slow bodyweight training for 4-6 weeks. And continue to cycle through those blocks . I know I am missing the hinge pattern with this program so I would maybe do some light swings on off days. I would also add in some crawling.

What do you all think of this plan? Would it help me in accomplishing my goals of feeling good, looking good and maintaining/gaining strength?
 
Welcome, @kmg22

Sounds like you're pretty much where you want to be in strength, size, body comp, movement quality, etc... and want to maintain all this while feeling good, looking good, and maintaining/gaining strength?

My initial thoughts is you've put a time constraint on your programming and that may not serve your goals optimally. Unless you have a need to restrict your training to 20 minutes, I would open that up and progress a little differently. (As for how, that depends on whether you are more interested in building strength, or work capacity).
 
kmg22 said:
What do you all think of this plan? Would it help me in accomplishing my goals of feeling good, looking good and maintaining/gaining strength?
Click to expand...

Welcome!

Program design is always fun.

But if gaining strength is one of your goals, then rounds for time isn't typically how one would design a strength program.

If you want to do bodyweight, there are many strength-focused programs that provide progressive difficulty via harder moves, as opposed to just piling on the reps.

You might want to also try gymnastic ring work, which is very challenging and will build lots of new strength if you've never done it before.
 
Last edited:
I think you have following two separate goals, one being dependent on the other.

First goal is to be healthy and to feel good. Depending on your issues, only following S&S is not enough. S&S is great, but it's not a silver bullet. You should add some light cardio and mobility drills around your regular strength training. Read Super Joints by Pavel, google for Kneesovertoesguy and Ido Portal's movement, perhaps add some sauna? Try to incorporate more glycine-rich foods to your diet - bone broths, gelatin, animal skins and connective tissue in general. Also, something as simple as crawling is quite good.

Second goal - strength and conditioning. This depends on the previous one, obviously. High-rep bodyweight (or BW circuits), is fun and has its benefits, but it's just not optimal for building strength. I particularly like isometrics or quasi-isometric training if my knees (or back, or whatever) is beaten for any reason.

+1 for gymnastic rings.
 
Last edited:
Hello @kmg22 ,

Bodyweight can lead your pretty far, whether it is strength training or strength-endurance training. Below are two B. Maximus (UFC Vet) workout, bodyweight based:
Upper body:


Lower body:


For strength, you can do the same, but with harder variation and less reps (x HSPU, y weighted pull ups, etc...) Same for lower body. From there, you can do it on alternate days: day 1: high reps, day 2, low reps. You may get cardio vascular conditioning by doing them using nasal breathing only (plus it will pace you).

Using this link, you'll find plenty of articles from this guy, which includes some other routines:

Bobby Maximus

www.menshealth.com www.menshealth.com

Otherwise, here is a StrongFirst routine:
www.strongfirst.com

Strength Aerobics: A Powerful Alternative to HIIT | StrongFirst

Hard-living types love killing themselves in the glycolytic pathway. But this is far from the only way to achieve good conditioning.
www.strongfirst.com

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
jozko said:
I think you have following two separate goals, one being dependent on the other.

First goal is to be healthy and to feel good. Depending on your issues, only following S&S is not enough. S&S is great, but it's not a silver bullet. You should add some light cardio and mobility drills around your regular strength training. Read Super Joints by Pavel, google for Kneesovertoesguy and Ido Portal's movement, perhaps add some sauna? Try to incorporate more glycine-rich foods to your diet - bone broths, gelatin, animal skins and connective tissue in general. Also, something as simple as crawling is quite good.

Second goal - strength and conditioning. This depends on the previous one, obviously. High-rep bodyweight (or BW circuits), is fun and has its benefits, but it's just not optimal for building strength. I particularly like isometrics or quasi-isometric training if my knees (or back, or whatever) is beaten for any reason.

+1 for gymnastic rings.
Click to expand...
I agree with @jozko, particularly separate sessions or beginning sessions with mobility work, etc. For LB, maybe the Mcgill big three by way of example.

I begin most days with some light stretching coupled with side planks regardless of whether I have an “actual workout” planned that day. It has been quite beneficial for me and my LB; mostly preventative now fwiw.
 
Thanks for all the advice/suggestions. Much appreciated. I guess what I'm looking for is something that I can do consistently for a long period of time that is good for me (keeps me healthy, feeling good and strong) and won't cause me pain. This led me to more bodyweight style training but I've never done a bodyweight program before, so I'm playing around with some ideas. I want to hit all my bases (push, pull, squat, hinge) but not sure how to program in a way where I can stay on it for a long time and keep making gains
 
Hello @kmg22

There are tons of options:
- S&S style: daily (or almost daily practice)
- 2-3x a week using a full body (so on alternate days)
- upper / lower split
- GTG

Do you plan to do some conditioning as well ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Thanks Pet. That makes sense. My initial reaction is that I think I would be looking to do the 2-3x a week template you alluded to.

I assume I would get some conditioning from the program and then I would ride my bike for twice a week or so for some conditioning.
 
kmg22 said:
I want to hit all my bases (push, pull, squat, hinge) but not sure how to program in a way where I can stay on it for a long time and keep making gains
Click to expand...
kmg22 said:
5 pull ups, 10 hindu pushups, 20 hindu squats, and 10 ab wheel or V Ups
Click to expand...

I would suggest to focus on using these exercises (and similar) for strength building. This means a lower volume overall, and less reps per set, but harder variations using elevations, changes of leverage, and sometimes external load.

And at the other end of the spectrum, also do plenty of easy moving - yoga, Original Strength, Ground Force Method... anything like that.

This would be a little different than just taking your chosen level of difficulty (which doesn't change) and just escalating the density and overall volume as you described.
 
kmg22 said:
Thanks for all the advice/suggestions. Much appreciated. I guess what I'm looking for is something that I can do consistently for a long period of time that is good for me (keeps me healthy, feeling good and strong) and won't cause me pain. This led me to more bodyweight style training but I've never done a bodyweight program before, so I'm playing around with some ideas. I want to hit all my bases (push, pull, squat, hinge) but not sure how to program in a way where I can stay on it for a long time and keep making gains
Click to expand...

Check out the Reddit bodyweight fitness routine.

It's strength-focused, designed to be done in about an hour, hits all the core movement patterns, and is designed to take you not just through a strength progression, but also a skill progression.

(skill progression is highly important in bodyweight modalities)
 
Hello,

Yes, you can view conditioning as a cardio-vascular adaptation. As long as you gently move and breathe on a regular pace, your heart will not really make the difference between circuits like those mentioned above and running (for instance).

Obviously, running or biking will improve your conditioning (meaning cardio vascular adaptation) but it also remains another skill.

Recently, I was listening to a podcast from the head coach of French boxing team, himself former world champion. When conditioning was mentioned he stated that if one likes to bike or run, then he has to go for it. A specific conditioning tool will create also specific adaptation. If one wants to be (or need to be) good at something, one has to practice it.

Below is an interesting thread when @spc describes great results from using biking and high rep calisthenics, with De Niro's Cape Fear routine :

Bodyweight - Pushup program?

Has anyone tried the 8 week pushup program in Breaking Muscle? I was thinking of giving it a try and wanted to see if anyone here has done something like it. Do you think it would be too much to also include inverted rows following the same format for equal reps? Thanks.
www.strongfirst.com

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
I think you may be onto something with the idea of cycling through blocks of lifts/exercises.

In my experience, feeling battered at the end of a program usually meant I ran it too long, had an off-balanced approach that didn’t balance pushes and pulls (as an example) or didn’t have good form. In your case, as an experienced lifter, it’s likely not going to be that latter.

Maybe have a 3 day/week program for strength with barbell or kettlebell for 2-3 months, then switch to a body weight program for 2-3 months, then switch to whichever modality you didn’t hit before in your strength block (Barbell or Kettlebell) for another 2-3 months, and lastly a long duration cardio type of block for the same 2-3 months. (These are just examples-pick whatever you want to develop) Then just alternate between the blocks until you feel burnout coming and switch off.
 
Andi-in-BKK said:
Maybe have a 3 day/week program for strength with barbell or kettlebell for 2-3 months, then switch to a body weight program for 2-3 months, then switch to whichever modality you didn’t hit before in your strength block (Barbell or Kettlebell) for another 2-3 months, and lastly a long duration cardio type of block for the same 2-3 months. (These are just examples-pick whatever you want to develop) Then just alternate between the blocks until you feel burnout coming and switch off.
Click to expand...

You basically described what I do for in-season / off-season weightlifting programming. ;)
 
I recently came across some of Steve Maxwell's stuff. Steve is a big proponent of isometrics and time under load training. I can't tell if this would be good for me to try. It is intriguing, especially with Steve also being former wrestler and BJJ player.

What are the pros/cons to that type of training?
 
kmg22 said:
I recently came across some of Steve Maxwell's stuff. Steve is a big proponent of isometrics and time under load training. I can't tell if this would be good for me to try. It is intriguing, especially with Steve also being former wrestler and BJJ player.

What are the pros/cons to that type of training?
Click to expand...

Other/Mixed - New training block, Isometrics as primary resistance training

Am a few weeks into a block I intend to run for 3-4 months. Pretty excited about this, so thought I'd share with the crew. The literature supporting use of Iso-only for mass gain is not very plentiful despite plenty of anecdotal accounts and examples from old time strongmen (who's exact...
www.strongfirst.com

I outline my entire approach and philosophy toward isometrics, which is not quite the same as S Maxwell’s. Is worth a quick read-through, I go into a bit of detail.

That said I have used and continue to use isometrics very extensively to very good effect.
 
watchnerd said:
You basically described what I do for in-season / off-season weightlifting programming. ;)
Click to expand...
I’m currently working towards SFG1 in November so lots of snatching, but when I can have a bit more training freedom, Summer is BJJ competition season, so that will be the body weight block because it’s so low for neural fatigue. Fall might be heavy barbell. Winter is traveling to the beach time (Thailand is nice in December) so lots of kayaking, body weight stuff, and swimming. Then spring would be Kettlebell building work capacity for the coming competition season in the summer.

I think it’s about the perfect way to plan for an athlete.
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom