Kettlebell Programming Snatches / A+A Snatches

[Dayz]

Hi team,

I now feel like I 'own' the simple standard, so I want to switch to focusing on Alactic+Aerobic repeats ('Strong Endurance') and The Snatch. Buying a 40kg bell isn't an option right now, so using my 16, 24 and 32 is the plan.

And of course, A+A and the snatch go perfectly together! (in fact, @alciampa has recently mentioned that he prefers to ONLY use the snatch for A+A, unless the Swing is being used to teach the snatch).

I'd love some feedback on my preliminary plan, which is to use the progress Al Ciampa outlines here (From “Simple” to Serious Endurance) with the 16kg bell. Then start again with the 24. Then, if I am able, do that cycle with the 32.

What do people think about this?

My other work would be the occasional get-up before the snatches.

If anyone else has suggestions as to how to pursue A+A Snatches, please let me know! I'd also like to know how you guys think A+A Snatches will effect/help my SSST numbers in the long run? (I've actually never completed it! So I don't have a number yet)

 

[DavThew]

Consider emailing @CMarker about trying out an experimental Strong Endurance snatch protocol. That way someone else has done the programming for you.

P.S - I'm currently on one of these protocols and it's pretty great.

 

[Anna C]

I'd love some feedback on my preliminary plan, which is to use the progress Al Ciampa outlines here (From “Simple” to Serious Endurance) with the 16kg bell. Then start again with the 24. Then, if I am able, do that cycle with the 32.

I think you've got a great idea there! The session lengths in that plan are an excellent guide for an A+A program. And you're right, Al says the snatch is far superior to the swing. I felt like I got a lot out of both, and we have seen people use both during the same program to good effect also. So for example if your hands or shoulders object to a high volume of snatches initially and you just can't do that much in a week, just sub swings for part or all of the session.

The program you linked uses 10 swings on the minute. Based on things that our group learned during these swing and snatch protocols, I would suggest:

• Either 10 swings (with your 32), or 5 snatches (preferably with your 24) per set/repeat.
• You can use the top of the minute, but don't hesitate to take longer rests if you need them. You should feel fully recovered before your next set. Breathing, talk test, heart rate, and overall body sensations can all be a helpful guide. No need to use all of these, just pick one and pay close attention. So if you stick to the session length in the linked program, which I think is a good idea, you might get 14 or 15 sets done in the 18 minute session. This is fine. Alternatively, you could do 18 sets/repeats and take longer than 18 minutes to do it. This is also fine.
• If you do snatches, they have to be challenging. 16kg is not enough to get the A+A effects. If you can't snatch the 24kg for sets of 5, then use the 16kg, but do them very fast and explosively, and go for 7 or 8 snatches. It's OK to mix bell sizes in a session. So first set/repeat do 8 snatches with the 16kg, next one repeat same on the other hand, next one do 5 snatches with the 24, next one repeat same on the other hand, etc. More chance to pay attention to your recovery and adjust as needed.
• Be EXPLOSIVE with the swings or snatches. A lackluster, easy, conditioning, endurance type swing or snatch will not help build your power. Think FAST, POWERFUL, HARDSTYLE.

I'd also like to know how you guys think A+A Snatches will effect/help my SSST numbers in the long run? (I've actually never completed it! So I don't have a number yet)

It will help. I completed SSST a year ago (training log entry) after spending most of 2016 on A+A programs. I actually believe it will help you more towards a 10-min SSST than it would towards a 5-min snatch test. And both do require some slightly different preparation and run-up, even if you have the solid foundation built from A+A. But yes, I think it's a good way to get there; not the most direct route perhaps, but a better one that will yield more overall results for you.

 

[ali]

Something else to consider:
A Science-Based Plan to Prepare You for the SFG Level I and SFG Level II

it's written up for swings and presses. I did this last year but the swing day was interrupted after I tweaked something digging in my garden, so kept it only to the presses of the strength day.
In another thread somewhere, the swing day can be swapped to snatches, using 5 per minute, using Anna's guides above. It's a 3 day week v Al's 4 day week, the former allowing for a strength day (not presses though if snatching!), the latter being exclusively on the snatch.
I've gone bananas, currently still going bananas and no doubt will continue doing so trying to choose one. Might do PTTP instead. Or ROP again.....arrrghhh

 

[Oleg_Nik]

@Anna C What do you think about progression from 24 to 32 snatch on A+A program. Dont want to buy 28. Something like when 20 repeats of 5-6 with 24 feel comfortable start mix 32 with 2-3 reps doable?

 

[Pavel Macek]

Thank you @Anna C for a great post.

 

[Steve W.]

Thank you @Anna C for a great post.

+1, and +1 to @Anna C's whole post.

@Anna C What do you think about progression from 24 to 32 snatch on A+A program. Dont want to buy 28. Something like when 20 repeats of 5-6 with 24 feel comfortable start mix 32 with 2-3 reps doable?

Not @Anna C, but IMO this is definitely doable.

However, in my experience 24kg to 32kg is a big jump. I find that 28kg is a goldilocks size for me for lots of applications, including A+A snatches. Moving up from 24kg, 32kg will force you to reduce set length and total volume, perhaps compromise technique, and definitely be hard on your hands. 28kg provides me a significant increase in load, while still enabling me to own it technique-wise and not have to compromise on volume.

My 28kg is my most used bell. It's most often the right size for me for snatches, presses, double cleans, and double front squats (I realize that if you are reluctant to get a single 28kg, you are not considering a pair).

 

[Deleted member 5559]

If you use a HR monitor, you should be able to identify the weight/movement/reps that will get your HR up to ~145 in less than 10-15 seconds each set. If the weight is too heavy, you will fatigue, HR won't get high enough, and not sustain. If it's too light you'll have to do too many reps that it will take longer than 10 seconds to get your HR up.

I usually vote for increasing volume before intensity so it would make sense to work your swings up to the duration volume and then start replacing sets of swings with 2-3 snatches as long as your HR is getting up enough. I suppose you could take two different paths from there:

1. Start to replace swings with 2-3 snatches and once all sets are replaced, then increase snatch reps the same way
2. Once a third are done with 2-3 snatch reps, start replacing those with 4-5 snatch reps and continue replacing swings with 2-3 snatch reps.

 

[Oleg_Nik]

Thank @Steve W. and @Bro Mo. Realy helpful.
Should clarify. I do S&S with 40 and TGU with 36 now, progressed 16-24-32. I will continue S&S, but need some variety. I did A+A repeats 3-5 reps 24 snatch and it felt good. The space is an isue, so if progression from 24 to 32 is doable it would be realy nice.