Kettlebell Question about the ladder system in ROP

[Reubenz]

This Monday i began with ROP and i must say it is really awesome but i do have a question regarding the ladder system. On week Two it says that i should increase the ladder with one so thats means i should use 4 ladders with 1,2,3 reps per side. But im not certain on what day i should increase. Logicly i think that i should use that on the heavy day but what about monday?Should i use 3 ladders with 1,2,3 ? I have red the book but i dont get it regarding week2.

 

[Sean M]

Yes, you increase on the heavy day, then the medium and light are the same number of ladders as the heavy day, and either 1 less (medium) or 2 less (light) rungs that the "top rung" you achieved on the heavy day.

"By the book" is heavy-light-medium (or heavy-medium-light...emphasis is "heavy" starts the week), in which case the remaining training days are trailing the effort on the heavy day. The book has Saturday as the heavy day, but it could just as easily by Monday heavy, Wednesday or Thursday light (or medium), Friday or Saturday medium (or light).

On heavy days, according to the book you may not go right from 5 x 1,2,3 to 5 x 1,2,3,4. Your next heavy day may be 1 x 1,2,3,4 and 4 x 1,2,3. Four rungs is still your "high water mark" for the other training sessions, but you don't add a rung until you have hit all 5 ladders with the top rung on your heavy day.

 

[Kettlebelephant]

Here, that's RoP layed out in the 13 week cycle most people talk about. No guesswork.

Like @Sean M said, it doesn't matter which weekday your heavy days is, the only thing important is the day before the heavy day should be a rest day, so no light, medium or variety day directly before your heavy day!
The other thing is your week always starts with the heavy day, because the heavy day sets the baseline (number of rungs & ladders) for the rest of the week -> Session 1 has to be heavy, subsequently session 4, 7, 10, 13 etc. have to be heavy days aswell (not counting variety day sessions here).

 

[Reubenz]

Thank you all. I will save that guide at once. You made this simple

 

[blahblahblah]

From the book.

"If you are climbing (1, 2, 3) ladders on the heavy day, do 5 singles on the light day and 5 x (1, 2) on the medium day"

I take this to mean the minimum done on light day is 5 singles, not 3, and the minimum done on medium day is 5x(1,2) not 3x(1,2)

 

[Kettlebelephant]

"Do three ladders, for a total of 18 repetitions, the first week; add a ladder the next week and a ladder the week after. Five ladders, 30 total reps. You will stay with five ladders from now on."

= only 3 ladders in week 1. Using the rules established by the book (same number on ladders, but reduced number of rungs for light & medium) we end up with 3 singles and (1,2)x3 for the rest of the first week.
That's how most people here interpret it.

After the part I quoted Pavel goes on to explain how to progress further (adding rungs). He then goes on to explain how to handle the light and medium days (-2 rungs on light & -1 rung on medium day) with a relatively long example.
After that comes the part, that you quoted:

"If you are climbing (1, 2, 3) ladders on the heavy day, do 5 singles on the light day and 5 x (1, 2) on the medium day"

This quote is introduced by "Another example:", so it's just a second, shorter and easier to understand example to show how the heavy-light-medium schedule works.
The example is used in the context, that we already work with 5 ladders.

In the end it wouldn't really matter whether you do it the way you interpret it or use the other way. 5 singles instead of 3 won't kill you neither will 15 total reps instead of 9 on your medium day in week 1, the total rep count is way too low for that.

Please note that the chart I posted is one way to do the RoP. You work your way up from 3 to 5 ladders at the beginning and then add a rung to the heavy day each week. This way you end up with a 13 week cycle that's progressive, but sustainable.
If you go 100% by the book you'd have to test your limit on every heavy day. By doing that your cycle can be shorter. In the long run, though, it might not be so sustainable.

 

[Steve W.]

In the end it wouldn't really matter whether you do it the way you interpret it or use the other way. 5 singles instead of 3 won't kill you neither will 15 total reps instead of 9 on your medium day in week 1, the total rep count is way too low for that.

Yes, but I agree with your interpretation of the book and the context of the passage quoted by @blahblahblah.

Please note that the chart I posted is one way to do the RoP. You work your way up from 3 to 5 ladders at the beginning and then add a rung to the heavy day each week. This way you end up with a 13 week cycle that's progressive, but sustainable.
If you go 100% by the book you'd have to test your limit on every heavy day. By doing that your cycle can be shorter. In the long run, though, it might not be so sustainable.

Good point about modulating the progression to be sustainable.

If you are a beginner, using a lighter or less challenging bell, or recapturing lost ground, you can probably just follow the progression mechanically by the book or even compress it by pushing your limit on heavy days.

If you are using a more challenging bell then I think it is often wise to stretch the progression out a little, especially by repeating the "full" heavy days (when your top rung is the same for all 5 ladders) for a few weeks in a row before adding a new top rung. Adding a new top rung makes a big jump in your medium day by resetting it to what was previously your heavy day, an extra 15 or 20 reps on medium day all at once.

 

[Kettlebelephant]

If you are using a more challenging bell then I think it is often wise to stretch the progression out a little, especially by repeating the "full" heavy days (when your top rung is the same for all 5 ladders) for a few weeks in a row before adding a new top rung.

Yes! I didn't think about that.
Most people (me included) are under the assumption that you need to have constant progress in a routine, yet we accept doing basically the same workout for weeks before reducing time or increasing the weight when we do S&S...
No problem with stretching out the cycle by repeating week 3, 8 & 13 (from the chart) or even repeating every week once and ending up with a 26 week cycle.

 

[blahblahblah]

In the end it wouldn't really matter whether you do it the way you interpret it or use the other way. 5 singles instead of 3 won't kill you neither will 15 total reps instead of 9 on your medium day in week 1, the total rep count is way too low for that.

I agree that it doesn't really matter, but believe the few extra reps early on will help more than hurt.

 

[MarkSch]

@Kettlebelephant

Here, that's RoP layed out in the 13 week cycle most people talk about. No guesswork.

That's great, I love no guesswork. I seem to have been a little aggressive in adding rungs in the past, based on this.

On another note, what does the forum think about starting at 5 ladders, if it's a second or later time through? 3 ladders just seems like too little, after training ROp previously and S&S.

 

[Kettlebelephant]

On another note, what does the forum think about starting at 5 ladders, if it's a second or later time through? 3 ladders just seems like too little, after training ROp previously and S&S.

Why not?
By the book you should use your 5-8RM and start with that. With the big jumps between KBs you may not have a weight in that area, e.g. you own a 24 which is your 2-3RM and a 16 which is your 12RM. The optimal starting weight for you would be the 20, but since you decided to buy your KBs in 8Kg jumps, you don't have one. No need to start at 3 ladders if you decide to run it with the 16.

 

[Oscar]

you own a 24 which is your 2-3RM and a 16 which is your 12RM. The optimal starting weight for you would be the 20, but since you decided to buy your KBs in 8Kg jumps, you don't have one. No need to start at 3 ladders if you decide to run it with the 16.

If this is the case, wouldnt it be a good idea to do the low rungs with the heavy bell and then the high rungs with the light one?

 

[Kettlebelephant]

If this is the case, wouldnt it be a good idea to do the low rungs with the heavy bell and then the high rungs with the light one?

Yes, some people do it like that, for example @damogari. I'd also do it for my light & medium days, but keep the heavy days unchanged.

 

[damogari]

I recommend doing lowest ladders with heavier bell, especially when you are doing 4 rung ladders or more. You will get more familiarized with heavier bell and 2nd rungs become "rest reps"

In addition all reps done right after heavier rungs will feel "lighter"