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Barbell Realistic SFL Goal?

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jca17

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Hi everyone. Last year I got the chance to start barbell training and did that for half the year before switching things up to train for OCR. Now I'm back to barbell and am really loving it (as I did last year). I also love teaching technique to friends and coworkers who train at the gym at the office building. All in all, I really would like to get the SFL certification. I'm looking at the one in November on the West Coast. Right now I'm 6', 155lbs. The most I've deadlifted was 275 last July at SFL course. I don't have a squat rack at the work gym (I know... what?) so I've been training Zerchers (but will likely just get a cheap 24 membership to work on back squat in preparation for cert). Last week did 5 sets of 8 with 125 and that's progressing smoothly, adding 5 lbs each week in Faleev's 5x5 with his original sets of 8 to begin with. Bench is the weakest for me, only getting a difficult 5 sets of 7 with 110 lbs last week.

Is it a realistic goal to be able to pass the cert by November? I'm thinking over the course of the year I would end up around 170 pounds if I focus on barbell training. So we're looking at 215 bench, 340 DL for strength standards. The squat and deadlift technique sets don't look too intimidating, but I also would need to get my overhead press. The most I've lifted is 85 pounds for 5 hard reps in overhead press, whereas I would need to get 115 for 5 clean reps.
 
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Yes.
You have 9 months to up those numbers. Plenty of time.
And overall, if you don't pass all the tests, you have more than a year from now to pass them (6 months after the cert to send videos).
You did the course, so you already have a grab at technique.

Go for it. What you will learn is priceless.
 
You could do it, but you'll have to put some focused attention into getting a lot stronger and putting on some more muscle. I'm going to suggest Starting Strength, as from what I've seen it would be the most directly focused to prepare you, and there isn't a StrongFirst program that I know of that is tailor-made for SFL prep. I did 5/3/1 and some PTTP, but from what I know now I think this would have been better, especially in the beginning. After a novice linear progression of this, and towards the fall, you might change programs and for example do PTTP for the two lifts that you still need more work on. I haven't run SS NLP yet but I've been looking at results from those who do, and it build strength pretty impressively quickly when the program is followed. You are probably the ideal candidate except for not having a squat rack. The low bar back squat is numero uno in SS, to the point that you can't do that program without it. As another alternative you could do PTTP and cycle two lifts for 2 months or so, then switch out for the other two.

In general, I would say emphasize these to prepare: Overhead/Military Press, Low Bar Back Squat, Deadlift, and Bench Press. Only occasionally spend any time or energy on the Front Squat, Zercher, High Bar Back Squat, and Good Morning. These are taught but not tested, and there's no need to program them. You'll be strong enough to do them during the course if you focus on the Big 4.

I can say from experience that you're going to need a lot more focus on the bench press. Here I am three and a half months after SFL, still trying to make that requirement. I had pressed my required weight once and thought that might be enough. No... it was nowhere near enough. There is a lot to learn about this lift and the strength you have from kettlebells doesn't carry over to it very well at all. Compound that with the fact that you didn't get any instruction on it during the 1-day barbell course, and you are at a disadvantage. Some coaching on this one would be highly recommended.

Good luck and keep us posted! I definitely recommend doing the SFL! You will learn a ton and have a great time.
 
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I will second @Anna C that Starting strength or a similar program is probably your best choice. Follow a novice linear progression for a few weeks/months (as long as you can), then switch to any intermediate program that fits the bill and you should be well prepared.

I ran Starting strength years ago for myself, and I had it run for quite a few students. In less than 3 months, most attain the SFL standard for technical tests. For the strength test, it varies more and usually takes more time, but none were very far. The bench press has proven the more challenging, but prior to going to the SFL, I did not really understand the bench press myself.
 
You are correct in your surmise that getting stronger will result in getting bigger. I hope I didn't hear regret in your realization.

Since I have a well above-average familiarization with the Novice Linear Progression described in the Starting Strength system mentioned above, I can speak to what you're in for and ballpark the results you could anticipate if you "do the program".

Basically, you'd train M-W-F Squat 3 sets of 5 (3x5), press 3x5, deadlift 1x5 alternating press with bench 3x5 every workout. While learning the lifts as described in a very thorough book, you work up to a weight that juuuuuust makes the bar slow down a hair on Rep 5. Do two more sets of 5 with that weight. Repeat for all lifts but with 1 set of 5 deadlifts. That's Day 1 - Monday. Tuesday you eat, rest, eat, nap, eat, doze, eat two more times then go to bed. I'm kidding. Sorta. Underweight males have a hard time understanding how much food is required to drive progress on 4 lifts simultaneously. Food and sleep drive recovery which you will need plenty of, because.....

On Wednesday you return to the gym to add ten pounds to the load your squatted 3x5 on Monday. You will then work up your Bench Press the same way you did the other movements- sets of 5 until the bar slows a bit, then 2 more sets of 5. Add 10-15 pounds to Monday's deadlift. Friday is a repeat of Monday, with 5 more pounds on your Press. You MAY get 3 sessions of 10lb increases on squat and deadlift. Without a savvy coach to watch you, it's best to err on the side of conservatism instead of taking too big a jump and stalling early.

So there ya go - a very small number of sessions with 10lb jumps on the big lifts and 5lb jumps on the pressing movements, then we go down to 5lb jumps on squat/DL, and 2.5lb on the presses. You may need fractional plates. Lift, eat, sleep, repeat.

This 5/2.5 increments can run for a nice long time - think 3-5 months. You can do that math yourself, but my LP ran from Sept-Jan and I added +220lbs on the squat at Age 52.
 
If you heard regret, its because you’re paranoid about the number of users who are suspicious of muscle youve debated here :) thats one of the reasons I want to focus on barbell. You, antti, kettlebelephant and others have influenced my programming goals and decisions for the year, especially while Im still in my twenties when hypertrophy is easier.
 
@jca17 most people still want muscle/hypertrophy, but they don't want the fat that goes with it ;)
I watched "Born Strong" on Netflix this weekend (great btw) and had a smile when Mark Henry said "You can't be the worlds strongest man and have abs."

The lifts at the SFL are bodyweight related so yes gaining too much fat could be an issue, but you have 9 months to go. That's still 6-7 months worth of LP and leaves you with the option of 2-3 months of dieting afterwards if you feel that you've added too much fat.
 
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Ive read Greyskull. Is there any important reason why SS should be done instead or will I be good to go with gs?
 
SS is a bit faster. You increase the weight a tad bit more aggressively and squat 1x more per week, which means one additional weight increase for the squat per week.
GSLP has the max rep set which IMO makes it more entertaining overall and especially during deloads.
I like it a lot more than SS, but you have to decide for yourself. I think over the course of 12 months there's no difference in the numbers you achieve in your lifts, but for the first 3-6 months you'll be faster with SS.

Let's look at where you are and where you need to be.
I'm assuming you go up to 180lbs. You predict 170lbs, which is fine, I'll just go with 180 so you have a little more wiggle room. Also take into account that you'll be weighed in your clothes (maybe even shoes? @Anna C).
You have 9 months/36 weeks.

DL: 275 -> 360
You DL only once per week with GSLP. Even if you'd only increase the weight by 2.5lbs per week you'd end up with 90lbs -> a 365lbs DL.
You'll easily make that one.

Squat: ??? -> 180 5RM
You're already doing Zerchers with 125lbs for 5x8. You can lift more with the backsquat so I think you might already got that one in the pocket. Even if you don't, you'll certainly will after working backsquats for 4-6 weeks. Only thing to worry about is improving your technique, because it's not only about the weight lifted, but also about how you do it.

Bench: ~140 -> 225
That might be a tough one. No matter if you go for SS or GSLP, you'll have 1.5 bench sessions per week. That's 54 sessions in 36 weeks. That's ~1.6lbs per session to reach 225.
Tough, but in case you don't make it in time you still have another 6 months to get it, which won't be any problem.

Press: 85 1RM -> 120 5RM/140 1RM
Again a very tough one. Like the bench you have 54 press sessions. You need 55lbs, that's ~1lbs per session. Looks doable, but press gains come notoriously slow.
You probably can only stall and deload once for the press and the bench in those 9 months.
You'll definitely be able to achieve the needed press within the 6 months after the SFL though.

So given the fact that both presses are the challenges for you and DL + squat don't seem to be a problem in the given timeframe I'd say GSLP is fine, because you have the same amount of press/bench sessions with SS and GSLP and GSLP actually puts a little more focus on the presses by doing them at the beginning of each session. SS is definitely a lot better for your squat.

My "calculations" might be off, so good if others could chime in, but overall you certainly can achieve the needed numbers in 9 months (with SS or GSLP, doesn't really matter) and even if you don't make one or two of the needed lifts you#ll definitely will make them in the 6 months after the SFL.
 
Looked through my notebook to find that the 85 pound rep max for overhead press was 5. I didn't have my notebook out when I posted my original numbers. Still, that and bench press are going to be the challenging part I'm thinking. With 6 months after the cert though it sounds very doable. Also, I would like to try a Plan Strong program, probably after the cert, when I've really used up a solid year of linear progression, which I'm thinking would help me nail the numbers if needed within 6 months.
 
Nice assessment, @Kettlebelephant ! Looks just right to me.

My impression is that SS loves the squat because it helps everything else along. It is a powerful stimulant for all-over strength development because it uses so many muscles all at the same time through a big range of motion, and includes both an eccentric and concentric contraction.

Kettlebelephant said:
you'll be weighed in your clothes (maybe even shoes?
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You weigh in as you are, but can take off your shoes. And there's a LOT of lifting on Day 1, so going in fasted or otherwise depleted is definitely not recommended.

jca17 said:
Also, I would like to try a Plan Strong program, probably after the cert, when I've really used up a solid year of linear progression, which I'm thinking would help me nail the numbers if needed within 6 months.
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That's what I'm doing, and I think you've nailed it: Use up the linear progression first, then go for the specialized program. I'm not sure I used up the linear progression so I may not be taking the fastest route. But I'm sure the Plan Strong plan is going to get me to my goal.
 
Bill Been said:
This 5/2.5 increments can run for a nice long time - think 3-5 months. You can do that math yourself, but my LP ran from Sept-Jan and I added +220lbs on the squat at Age 52.
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Bill, great job with the 220 lbs increase. Do you mind letting us know what all your numbers were before and after your novice LP? Also, how good was your technique in the lifts when you started the novice LP?


I've never done a novice LP myself. Back when I started barbell lifting, I stupidly injured myself a bit and had to take a break from the squat and the bench, so I did the deadlift and the press as I could do them and I progressed rather well, I've heard. After I got better I have eventually started using linear progression schemes in my programming and added a bit of weight on the bar every session or week and so, and have made more progress.

I'm satisfied with how well I've done so far, but at the same time I like to consider if I could do something better, and if I could have done something better. Missing out on a novice LP like SS is one of the things that I wonder about; if I would have progressed better with it than how I trained.


@jca17 , I tried to make my view on the thread subject known earlier on by liking @jef 's post, but now that I'm writing here I'll blabber on and say that you have plenty of time to reach your goals. But you really have to remember to eat and sleep. I don't mean to be rude but 155 lbs really isn't a lot for your height. Now, I'm an example of far too much useless weight, so I'm of course not the greatest example of a healthy diet, so take what I say with a big grain of salt.

If you eat well, sleep well and train well, being consistent in all these matters, I have zero doubt you'll hit those goals of yours and far more by November.
 
@Antti Yup, hypertrophy is one of the main reasons I've decided I want to really focus on barbell this year over kettlebell. I would be glad to get to the 180lb upper prediction that kettlebelephant made and be able to train between 175 and 200 depending on life circumstances and programming goals throughout my adult life.
 
I really don't mean to turn this into a commercial for another system, so Steve, feel free to intervene here:
Time Frame: 1 Sept '14 thru 28 Jan '15.
Starting Weights (3 sets of 5):
Squat: 89lbs - 300lbs
Press: 60lbs - 145lbs
Bench: 115lbs - 166lbs
Deads: 135lbs - 320lbs

Notes: all lifts were started light as I was self-taught. It gets heavy enough soon enough, trust me. Bench was started late due to my failure to acquire full equipment. I pressed "Pause" on LP to crash diet/ hard condition for a life insurance physical. Reset Squat by 45lbs for that. Went to the seminar early in February to find out my low bar squat and my Press sucked, so another reset followed that unwelcome discovery. Final Late Novice Squat got to 340x5; 305x5x2 once I figured out how to shove my knees out and keep them there while holding hard upper back extension.
 
As the 5x8 Zercher squats were easy last week, I jumped by 10 pounds instead of 5 to 135 for 5 sets of 8.

Here's the second set from today:


And the fifth and final set:

^ The bar started irritating my the skin of my right elbow around the 4th rep, by the 6th rep becoming painful enough to stop. It went away as soon as the skin was released from the pressure, so I decided to finish the last 2 reps.
* As I was writing this, I got a notification from youtube that one of my videos is blocked because of the music in the background. I went with the first suggested replacement track for the absurdity. Please just watch without sound if its distracting haha!

@Anna C
And anyone else who knows SFL Zercher squat standards, I'd love to hear any critique and feedback. I've tried sitting back more than in these videos with more upper body lean, but the bar runs into my knees before I feel like I've broken parallel. These videos are somewhere between how I did them last year (fully upright, bar glued to torso the whole time) and bar touching the tops of my knee caps, where I leaned more but sacrificed depth. I corrected my fully upright style after reading Anna's thoughts on her SFL experience, so thank you :)

Looking forward to training somewhere I can practice backsquats and get going on linear progression. I think I'm going to do 4 more weeks of Faleev with bench press, sumo dl, and zercher squat first (conventional is my stronger deadlift, and how I ran Faleev last year, but then I jumped straight into 5x5 as Pavel recommended).
 
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jca17 said:
@Anna C
And anyone else who knows SFL Zercher squat standards, I'd love to hear any critique and feedback.
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Those Zerchers look great. Really nice, by SFL standards. I don't think I'd change anything except maybe slow it down a tiny bit, which will happen naturally when you increase the load. The SFL manual says that one of the advantages of the Zercher is that the center of gravity is lower than the back and front squats, therefore "the weight is easier to balance and you can "grind" harder without losing your form." So don't hesitate to keep loading it heavier, as long as you're limited to that gym with no rack. Then you'd probably want to go to 3 to 5 sets of 5.

You're going to do great with the low bar back squat. So much about it is the same as what you're doing there with the Zercher (as it should be) - your stance, knees, depth, hip drive, back tightness, bracing - all of these will be exactly as you are doing them, it's just that the bar will be on your back and you'll be able to load it heavier because you won't be limited by the abs, elbows, and lack of a rack. (I don't think you'll be allowed to use that music from the second video with squats, tho ;)ROFL)

I'm going to run a linear progression starting in about a month also, to see if I still have any newbie gains to get. I'm sure I do with the squat at least. Curious to see if I can drive the other lifts up as well. I'd like to be familiar with it as an option for students, too. The only simple program from SFL to use with a brand new barbell student is PTTP with two lifts at a time, then an option to cycle in two more while maintaining the first two. But there is lots of great information about long term planning and more complex cycles to use once you're beyond the beginner stage.
 
Anna C said:
I'm going to run a linear progression starting in about a month also, to see if I still have any newbie gains to get. I'm sure I do with the squat at least. Curious to see if I can drive the other lifts up as well. I'd like to be familiar with it as an option for students, too. The only simple program from SFL to use with a brand new barbell student is PTTP with two lifts at a time, then an option to cycle in two more while maintaining the first two. But there is lots of great information about long term planning and more complex cycles to use once you're beyond the beginner stage.
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You mean you're going to run a novice linear progression like SS or just a linear progression for your newbie gains?

The reason I ask is to avoid the misconception that a linear progression is something only for novices. Plenty of world records have been done with linear progression cycles. I don't think it ever goes out of style. Of course, it's a great idea to try out different styles of progressions in programs, but I'd advise to keep the humble LP in the toolbox for all of one's lifting career.
 
Antti said:
You mean you're going to run a novice linear progression like SS or just a linear progression for your newbie gains?
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I'm going to do the SS NLP by the book. Here's how it will fit into my barbell history:

Early 2014: Learned to deadlift and practiced a bit
Mid-2014: A few months of CrossFit: DL, SQ, press, clean, jerk, snatch (mostly technique, not heavy)
Late-2014: Kettlebell + deadlift cycle programmed by Al C.
Early 2015: SFG Prep program by Al C. which included deadlifts
Rest of 2015 and 2016: Kettlebell and occasional random deadlifting; a bit of practice for two local unofficial powerlifting meets
Early-mid 2017: Kettlebell + barbell squats
Mid-2017: 12 weeks of 5/3/1 -- press, deadlift, bench press, and squat, made gains on all
Fall 2017: A few weeks of PTTP; deadlift and press, and attended SFL
Late 2017 - Early 2018: Plan Strong bench press + practicing other lifts
Early-mid 2018: SS NLP

Going into it, my DL/SQ/BP/PR 1RM numbers in pounds are probably 265/160/135/100. I think I've still got some newbie gains in the tank and can make some progress with all of these on a linear progression before going back to a more complex program. And yes I agree, "keep the humble LP in the toolbox for all of one's lifting career." Once I experience it for myself, I'll know a lot better how and when to use it for my trainees.
 
Very Smooth Zercher Squats!

jca17 said:
I've tried sitting back more than in these videos with more upper body lean, but the bar runs into my knees before I feel like I've broken parallel
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This is exactly what is happening to me, and that always leaves with me the unsatisfied feeling that I haven't done the good job with the squat. If I am to go any deeper, the torso would have to start becoming more vertical. May be my height (6'1 and my legs are long) have something to do with it.

I am currently running Faleev's too just like you jca17. My first barbell program. We are in similar position and numbers except that I am 44 years old and weigh ~200lbs. I use the office gym, no rack and hence I employ Zerchers. After reading this thread I began to harbor ambitions about SFL too. And perhaps switch to some of the LP programs mentioned in this thread. I don't know when. I have been at Faleev's for three months now and I am enjoying it immensely. Another three month or when my DL 1RM goes beyond 300lb, perhaps that is when I will make the switch.
 
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